To say that the next generation is primarily screwed in terms of resilience

This is absolutely true . I am always amazed at the number of threads from people making a huge deal of minor friendship issues

I think we can't under estimate the effect of lockdown and the wider Covid pandemic on young people .

What I see from my son and his friendship group who are all early 20s is a group of youngsters who are mainly confident and hardworking - but couple with struggles - one minor and the other major. I don't know if that would be replicated across other areas or even across older age groups .

Yep. I've got many middle aged/older client who are verging on being incompetent in "normal" life skills, but are brilliant and successful in their chosen trade/vocation/profession.

Simple (to most people) things like paying a bill on time are alien to some of them and they end up in difficulties by missing deadlines, incurring penalty charges, even down to seeing more parking fines than an "average" client. They just struggle with normal life. Incapable of doing comparison websites so end up staying with the same mobile company, Sky/Virgin TV, insurance, utilities, etc paying through the nose but just can't bring themselves to do a bit of research and change to cheaper options.

It never used to be like this. I've been doing my job for 40 years and back when I started most people were competent in life skills, and those that weren't (usually those who couldn't read nor write) got someone else to do it for them, usually a spouse or relative/friend. Now, there's a kind of ingrained "helplessness" not only in the young but in those aged in their 30s, 40 and 50s too. Strangely, I don't see it as much in older people, i.e. those who have retired.

In my (limited) experience, I think something's being going wrong for a few decades and it's just getting worse.

For me, resilience starts young.

Children need lots of play, try and fail type toys, try and change toys, things to return to, toys to help with problem solving, a chance to be independent, to think for themselves.
This includes jigsaw, construction toys, small world play and lots of time outside.
Teens need to realise ( and parents too) that not all children are ‘neuro-diverse’ - they just have different personalities, needs and interests. They require parental support to develop strategies to meet their own needs.

My DC’s are older - as a student, a sudden claim of MH issues was followed by lots of conversation, lots of checking in and unpicking. This uncovered a young adult who was a procrastinator, unable to manage time and failing through last minute pressures of assignments to complete. Strategies shared and adopted to improve time management, lessened the anxiety of completing work and increased DC’s success, resilience and self reliance and motivation.

In time, DC could recognise and laugh about ‘being just lazy’! ( and disorganised and tired from too many parties). He recognised procrastination as part of his personality. ( goodness me he was always last out of the changing rooms at age right, last to put his coat on to get in the car).

I'm not saying this is the case for all, I was very careful in listening and supporting and if genuine MH issues were evident the support would have been different. However, having personality traits does not mean there are MH issues.

And how much were you working- full time during your children's’ entire childhood? 3 under 5 in a flat. Not much of an issue really as under 5s aren’t generally able to go out on their own.

My relatives who are mainstream teachers say the same thing - something is wrong now, starting with attendance, which is down. They also believe part of the problem is the irrelevant curriculum. Students say there is no need to know "x" and it is hard to argue with them most of the time.

In the work place, I see people claiming "work-life balance" and "anxiety" as a way to stop going into the office or agreeing to new tasks or even changing a process that needs to be changed. (I am in the states.)

The pandemic wasn’t good for resilience (except perhaps for essential workers) and I personally think young people should not be allowed to work from home for at least the first 5 years of their career.

Once someone has become disciplined enough to physically go to an office, regardless of lack of sleep, and cope with all a normal day’s work throws at them, then maybe consider WFH occasionally.

Parents should also stop regarding sending their children to school as optional, unless they are actually ill. A little tired, go to school; a slight sore throat, go to school; hamster died; go to school etc etc

Routines build strong mental health and resilience, making thing optional depending on how you feel does the reverse.

Are you actually serious? You realise others come from abusive homes or have real trauma happen in their lives and they’re far more resilient? Kids from third world countries where just having clean water is a challenge, never mind a chance to go to school and they manage without crying every 5 minutes and moaning about their mental health. Being out of school for a year is not some big traumatic, life changing event that removes any resilience. In fact you’ll find hard situations tend to increase resilience if anything.
Get some perspective.

Oh give over you have no bloody idea. None at all. It’s not that easy with mobile phones, trust me I tried.

I had a GAD (I don’t consider myself to have it anymore). It involved retreat and then eventually forcing myself to do things. That often meant getting ready 2 hours early because I needed to give myself a chance to sit naked and sweat for a bit before getting cleaned up and doing it anyway.

I completely agree with previous posters about anxiety being worsened by avoidance. It got better the more things I did and knew I survived to tell the tale. The longer a child is absent the harder it is for them to go back. It gets larger and larger in their heads (what have I missed out on in school social life, what is everyone talking about now). The approach taken now seems to be about “kindness” rather than actual improvement. I would have been fucking delighted if someone said “oh going to x makes you anxious, well you don’t have to go”. Except I would never have got better and I wouldn’t have been able to support myself.

My Dh is very cautious with DD and always encouraging her to be safe while I shout over his shoulder “YOLO!!! JUMP!!”. He doesn’t understand, he thinks he’s protecting her but actually he is teaching her she’s not competent to judge risk and that she should always be careful and it’s all too much. I took her back to the same activity she didn’t want to do for something like 6 months before she would step inside the room by herself. It was hard there was a lot of crying, but she bloody loves it now. At 4 she has a bunch of similar examples of being scared and then overcoming it to do something new and we go over them when she’s worried “do you remember when you were scared of x but you gave it a go and….”. I’m trying to show her that she can try things, she can be by herself and be fine, she can handle it. It’s bloody hard sometimes but she now says things like “no I’m resilient, I’m going to do this by myself, I’m not giving up”. I absolutely steadfastly refuse to allow her to live like I did for most of my life.

I read a few studies on school refusal (I linked them in another thread, you can google) and one element that I thought was interesting was co-dependency with a parent (there were kids from families that were very distant and at the other end families who were emeshed). I think COVID disrupted the normal stuff most young people do slowly, go to town by yourself, get on a bus by yourself, many kids were cosily tucked away in a really safe environment (sadly not the case for all kids) which was probably quite nice, teen years are brutal. Maybe kids didn’t get as much of a chance to do the natural pulling away from parents and some parents are going to be more likely to shove their kids out the doors than others.

I know I sound brutal but I am talking as someone who had a pretty bad anxiety disorder and I’ve overcome it. Yeah I still feel anxious sometimes, this is normal and human but I don’t have a disorder. I worry that young people can’t tell the difference between “I feel anxious in this moment” and “I have an anxiety disorder”.

No, well I don't mean to say that, I don't know any Academics (uni professors etc) I was trying to suggest that resilience is a trait that some people have and others don't, it is across the generations and jobs etc.

Please consider that there are some kids/teens/young people who have NOT been mollycoddled by their parents who are still unable to do things due to anxiety.

My DS has always been pushed into doing things out of his comfort zone but it has NOT worked for him and short of using a cattle prod on him I'm not sure what else could be done. He is one of the people who can't use a bus, go to school, speak to people etc. I can assure you that we as parents have tried (and are trying) our absolute hardest but he is autistic and I think that there are certain things that are outside of his comfort zone at the moment.

We have another child who is the total opposite and is outgoing, capable and resilient. Brought up by the same two parents.

Please don't be quick to judge.

Maybe the parents need to take the mobile phone away from their child or heavily restrict their use of a mobile, after al that is heir job.
I lived in a flat with 3 under 5 and i worked, i also had a husband who could be away 9 months of the year, they had outside time most days even of it was only a walk round the block.

Yes, it is all relative.

This is what I was trying to say earlier in this thread. School these days can be toxic for a variety of reasons and simply not fit for purpose for lots of kids. THAT'S why we're seeing more MH issues among school children. Rather than whingeing about lack of resilience, perhaps we need to look at our education system and try to understand why so many kids are disengaged and either go down the stress/anxiety/MH route or the disruptive/disobedient route? Our "one size fits all" system simply no longer fits the majority of pupils as it's antiquated in terms of the subjects taught, the exam system and school life in general, i.e. nonsensical rules.

I hated school because of bullying and I started to truant and self harm, but once I got into the workplace I was absolutely fine and went from strength to strength once I was around mature adults rather than the toxic school environment.

So are you saying only academic people can be resilient as opposed to people who go down vocational routes and artsy careers?

How many people are genuinely resilient, I'm trying to think of the people I know. It depends how you define it. Maybe you need to adjust your outlook and ask if it is an issue or a different viewpoint. Working until a reasonable time compared to sleeping in an office due to working on a deal perhaps shows a lack of resilience but hasn't the young person got their head screwed on.

This generation are just a reflection of their parents who lived easy lives too.

I just think you an I are talking about easy in a different way. I just mean that the amount of time that needs to be dedicated to our most basic needs, keeping warm, looking after crops/animals, feeding the family, repairing the home, looks very different to society now that it did say 100years ago, 200 years ago and on and on. And that's a good thing but human's have been around for eons doing this stuff. We aren't great with rumination and we aren't great with not being physically busy.

Yep I’m not sure the boomers who only needed to have 1 person working with women often never working, no childcare issues, a functioning nhs, no climate change worries, affordable housing, early retirement with decent pensions and no smart phones to deal with were that resilient .

I'm sure there will be some pushing the narrative that the younger cohort are just 'better' at taking the time they need when they're not at their best.

I believe they're a balance, you don't have to drag yourself into work at death's door but equally we've all got shit going on and bills to pay, so keep productive.

I agree. Luckily our DDs and their immediate social circle seem pretty normal and sound (thankfully they're like me and don't tolerate much in the way of nonsense behaviour). But when it comes to their extended social circle and acquaintances I hear so many shocking tales of young adults who have been so pandered to and smothered in cotton wool by their parents that they cannot function independently, at all.

When they were in Sixth Form I swear 50% of their classmates 'had anxiety'. Really? Like really? Or did they just sometimes feel anxious which is a perfectly sensible response to stressful situations e.g. taking an exam, driving test, waiting for GP results, going away to university etc.

DD recently flew with a friend who is nearly 22. Her friend's parents messaged her roughly 20 times between dropping her at the airport and her actually getting on the plane. Just constantly checking on her, making sure she was okay going through security, had she got her toiletries in the right bag, was she at the right gate? It was relentless. In contrast I just received ONE text from DD (nearly 21) to say they'd landed which was as it should be.

If I'd allowed to let my DD get to the age of 21 without being able to navigate an airport successfully ON THEIR OWN then I would have failed as a parent.

I know people across the generations that aren't resilient, they are good at other things like amazing Art or are professional musicians but they are not resilient, I know an upper class woman in her 50s, who has never worked, is ill most days and lives off her looks so people (men) do these things for her.

Nail on the head. Couldn't agree more. It's not fit for purpose and hasn't been for probably 50 years.

I agree. I work in a similar field & these issues have sky rocketed over the last 2 or 3 years. I think a lot of parents will have adult children permanently living at home, incapable of earning or living independently. It’s very sad.

I think - if us adults - are feeding a cycle of negativity, it causes a downward spiral. I think smartphones etc ARE part of life now : but we can monitor and teach children to use them appropriately, so long as we see it as our job, our responsibility, to create boundaries, talk to our children and not instil a sense of negative apathy.
There are terrible things in the world : but I think proactivity, how can we make this better, ensuring that children see the beauty and wonder in life is so important. And that can be as simple as a walk in a park or along a beach.
We’re not here for very long, so that chance to be ‘human’ : to say ‘wow’, to experience what we can : is so valuable.

I think individualism, greed, consumerism compounds that : that we NEED certain things to be happy, when we don’t. If we have sufficient food, shelter, warmth and security we should all have the opportunity to be happy. Yet we think we need a £40 shampoo, fast disposable fashion, a high end kitchen etc etc. And it’s confusing : especially growing up. We’ve taught our children that success is based on earnings, wealth, a big house, designer labels, a high tech phone : whereas we should teach that success is about happiness.