To think people are getting scruffier?

Exactly. Contemporary people, including myself, typically have time to spend huge amounts of time on social media, to watch TV etc, to be on mumsnet. These are undoubtedly many many more pleasurable things to do nowadays than clean and lots of people make exactly that choice. But it is a choice. I could spend the time I spend on mumsnet cleaning and I'd have a much cleaner and tidier house. There's not some massive late capitalist conspiracy preventing me from doing so.

Also I try not to get into that working class "you must donkey stone your doorstep, you slattern" mentality. No I don't have the standards my grandmother had, but I have had the benefit of staying much longer in education, a well paid upper middle class professional career and am the main earner. We can cope with a bit of dust, we are basically pretty organised and things get done when they get done.

Of course it doesn't render someone incapable of maintaining basic standards. But you have a lot less time to do it all in was the point.

And I wasn't necessarily referring to just the baby years either, my gran was a housewife well after her children were grown, my own mother only ever worked part time until well after I no longer needed a SAHP.

Sure someone could come home at 6pm after being in work all day and then spend all night cleaning, but the liklihood is, unless you never want to have any down time, it's often not going to be to the standard of someone who's at home all day, sometimes with no kids to look after either.

For goodness sake, you’d think we were all down the mines. Most of us are perfectly capable of working, raising kids and keeping our homes and selves clean and tidy

I've been like that most of the time, but when I was burnt out from stress, depressed and exhausted, I had to write myself a to do list including a few things I had already done, and breaking down tasks like doing the laundry into tiny baby steps so I could manage it. I remember doing dinner for DDs, only something like jacket potato and beans and each step feeling like swimming through treacle and counting the minutes until I could sit down again. So I do get it (I think).

I totally agree with your last point

I am more than happy to work and pay tax for the healthcare system and for education but not for people to have a few kids and then sit about on benefits. How about the government makes the fathers of these kids start paying for them?

True, if anything it was harder back in the day because they didn't have washing machines, Hoover's etc and had to do everything manually

I think col and COVID did a number on people and I've noticed more scruffy people about. I don't buy it though. You can still be clean.

But with houses I saw some shockers 20 years ago. I get that not everyone makes sure it's immaculate but I've been in houses where they couldn't be arsed to empty ashtrays, open the curtains, put stuff in a cupboard.

With me and mine it's pride.

For goodness sake, you’d think we were all down the mines. Most of us are perfectly capable of working, raising kids and keeping our homes and selves clean and tidy,

I do. My point is that I manage to do this and work five days a week. Modern life has a lot of convenience to it! Give over people saying it's hard. It always was.

I understand people saying depression, or otherwise not being arsed to do it, but saying you actually need someone to do the cleaning or management of an average house... no.

Lots of people work full time and still manage to keep a house clean. Sure, a sahp might have more time to do it (depending on the age of her dc), but having a ft job doesn't render a person incapable of maintaining basic standards.

You don't think someone who is home all day has more time to clean than someone who works full time 5 days a week?

Sorry but as someone who works, raises children and manages to keep a home in reasonable condition on her own, I just think this is laziness. I can be lazy too, but I don't pretend it is the structure of modern society that means I cannot do something. I can. It's just I may choose not to.

I was born in 1956 and my Mum worked full-time all her life except for two years when I was born. When I look back, I cannot remember any of my friends whose Mum did not work.

There was a textile mill in the village where I grew up and most of the workforce were women, working full-time and almost all of them married. My Mum always cleaned her front door step and put like a white stripe along the front edge (cannot remember what it was called) and so did most of the neighbours - it has simply never occurred to me to do the same.

Things were different in the 60s and 70s. Generally a mother stayed home. Now you have people really financially struggling, with both parents working full time jobs, people are exhausted and have little money. Not to mention the huge increase in chronic fatigue since the pandemic. People are ill, poor, overworked and exhausted. It's no longer home standards are dropping.

I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if anyone has already said this, but covid has been found to cause hormone imbalances, as well as causing body odour and sweating.

Possibly outing myself as IRL friends know this. We bought a house that when viewed had college son shagging his teen girlfriend middle of day parents out of work, full condom two foot from threshold, it smelt of sex when opened bedroom door and they sort of shouted busy from under a duvet. Second viewing they asked would we mind not seeing that room as he was mortified. We never saw the room properly and after buying found holes in walls, back in of door and sockets didn’t work. Never worked out if a scam.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it as I've not read every response but I think WFH has had an effect on this too- not everyone works tidily or has the room to do so and more people around the house- it's easy to get more mess and less emphasis on dressing for work or makeup or regular hair cuts and colours etc -

@Babyroobs i don’t think it’s a matter of what people choose, the amount of Universal Credit single people get now is not enough to pay the bills let alone food and luxury products such as decent washing detergent, heating to dry clothes or shower gel, shampoo let alone the electricity to run the shower.
The amount people are on aren’t even taking into consideration how many are suffering from mental health these days preventing them up keeping other’s standards.
There is also so much hidden homeless, @HomeIsHardToFind the gentleman in the shop could very well have been sleeping in his car and physically has nowhere to wash or do his washing.
I work in the community, people are unintentionally living from food banks and parcels.

I think people are struggling, financially and mentally. My house is a mess due to mental struggles. It overwhelms me nearly every day. When looking at properties I noticed people had so much stuff. So I try to throw stuff out all the time to stay on top of the mess.
Also to add to your post, when doing the school run I was surprised at the numbers of people who wear the exact same clothes the whole week. I understand if you like black jeans you probably have multiple pairs but I do think people are struggling to be wearing the same outfit head to toe the entire week.
Lastly, I am more conscious of my energy bill. I put on the washing machine less and shower less. Used to be a twice or once a day person. I cannot afford to have the heating on as much either. All electric here.

I’m in the UK and was also surprised at the amount of posters on that thread who don’t shower or bathe daily, I had no idea. I can’t understand why anyone who can afford it wouldn’t want to be clean. Water is very expensive here though!
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t bathe / shower daily and I also haven’t noticed a rise in people with body odour, and I live in area with a lot of not well off people.

I also don’t know anyone able bodied who strip washes, ( not since the 70’s anyway ) what a bloody faff, it’s quicker to shower.
I don’t think your post was ludicrous btw.

I don't know about people's homes but people out and about are definitely scruffy, I went out Saturday night and oh my god the state of some people! I remember when you couldn't get into a bar/nightclub without wearing smart clothing (no hoodies hats ect) but honestly there was some people that looked straight up like they had been wearing the same clothes for 3 days.

The homes thing I wonder whether it's partly to do with the change of work life balance in the generations.

I always try and keep my home tidy and clean BUT me and DH also work full time often leaving before 8am and not getting home until 6pm. My house is never going to be as pristine as say my Gran's who's never worked and spends most of her day cleaning. There will inevitably be things I have less time to do that take a back burner to all of the other day to day things that need cramming into the few hours we're awake and at home for. Things like you could pull out my Grans fridge and it will be mopped and shining under there. Pull out mine and it'll probably have some dust bunnies and a few escaped peas from the freezer.

It was fairly common in her day for the wife to stay home and look after the house and children, I imagine a lot less common now and with both parents out and working all week inevitably there will be more homes less well kept than ones with someone constantly there cleaning it up!

I often fantasise about how much tidier my house could be if I was actually in it more!

Oh, behave. You know exactly what that poster meant. I love a curry, but it doesn’t mean I want to go around stinking of it or subjecting others to what is a strong smell 🙄.

Yes, this.

For the predominant part of my childhood (80s/90s), my mum was a SAHM. She used a whole separate day to clean each part of the house 🤣 So, one day was dedicated to the kitchen, one was the bathroom, one was hoovering and dusting downstairs, one upstairs, etc.

I work 30 hours a week, and have one day 'off' in the week. In my 'free' 5.5 hours (in between the school runs), I often am so blindsided by how much there is to do, that I don't do as much as I could.