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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

635 replies

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:34

rainbowunicorn · 24/02/2024 11:52

@TotoroElla I am so sorry that you seem to have attracted the mumsnet bitches to your thread. They are so keen to jump on with their judgy, nasty responses that they don't bother to read past the first paragraph. They just end up making themselves look stupid though.

I really hope your sister makes a full recovery and her little boy can be back home where he belongs as soon as possible.

Thank you, that's kind. And thank you for sticking up for me - much appreciated!

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:28

Whatdoido1987 · 24/02/2024 11:50

Is BM perhaps picking at small things because she's lost control over her own child? I think this is a lot of upset over a 4 year old wearing an extra layer. It's obviously an upsetting situation and it was be hard having somebody else calling the shots but hopefully when she's well DC will be back home ASAP x

I do take your point and yes, things can get magnified. But those are things like him not wearing matching clothes and mum has bit her tongue on this. But this is about the little boy's comfort so should be dealt with.

OP posts:
AngelinaFibres · 24/02/2024 14:26

Rachie1973 · 24/02/2024 14:16

We’ve always done it to stop them pulling socks off

I look after my grandson every Monday. He is 2 next month. He goes through phases in the day where he will want bare feet. I have an old house with some rooms carpeted and some tiled. If he's riding his car up and down the hall/ conservatory his feet get cold because those floors are tiled so he asks for the socks to be put back on. If we are out he will have shoes on so he will have socks on. Surely a small child needs to experience these things as they grow. I am wearing woolly tights with a skirt today. My house is old and never hot but I would be very uncomfortable with long trousers on top as well as tights. I am certain nursery is a lot warmer than my house today.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 14:25

PTSDBarbiegirl · 24/02/2024 14:18

It could be a sensory thing and may provide a compression feeling which some like. I agree with PP if social worker has requested not dressing in tights I'd expect that to be respected but why is the mother focusing on criticising the foster carer instead of making the changes needed. Seems odd and sad too. Hope things improve soon.

THE MOTHER HAS CANCER- she is having chemotherapy to “make the changes needed”.

The kid doesn’t want or need tights.

Ffs read the thread before sprouting utter bollocks.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:24

Spinet · 24/02/2024 11:45

Are you/she worried that this is indicative of a lack of care and respect generally? I would understand if you thought that. If it is literally just the tights you need to let it go - there are a lot of other things at play and while the FC should be prioritising the relationship between you all for the sake of the child you all should be too. I'm not suggesting anything about this is easy but a disagreement about tights is not worth dissolving the relationship over.

I mean, it's a worry yes. But when I really think about it - no, I think she looks after him well, in general. It's a bit draining how difficult she can be, though. A lot is let go! Not things that are harmful to him, if course That's why I won't let this go as it is harmful to him. And believe me, I bite my tongue a lot for the sake of our relationship. And I think honestly, this may be why this is dragging on because we've not wanted to be too direct. But I think we need to ask her directly why she is doing this.

OP posts:
Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 14:22

Marchingforwards · 24/02/2024 14:09

I am a foster carer and I think the fc in this instance needs to respect the parents wishes as much as possible.

most parents will complain about clothing and hair styles when their children are living with a foster carer. This is a natural response to losing their child and their rights (even though they may not have lost parental rights it’s a minefield for everyone).

even if I believed the child should wear tights (maybe a cultural thing going on here) I would not dress a child in a way that causes unhappiness to the parent. Being friendly, respectful and kind is always the way I try to go.

I have had instances where I can’t dress the child as the parents insist and this has caused a lot of distress and distrust all around. It is so important that the carer understands and empathises with the parent as much as possible. I try to have a collaborative approach wherever possible. This is also what the child needs. They need to feel that mum is still very much there and cares and is involved. Otherwise they suffer more as in an acrimonious environment.

Utter patronising rubbish.

The mother hasn’t lost her child or her rights- she has had the misfortune to get cancer, and a FC has been employed to fill in for her until she is well.

This in no way affects her ability to know what is appropriate clothing for her child, and no FC has carte blanche to ignore what SW has told her.

If she genuinely thinks that this child should wear tights under his trousers (despite being in a central heated building all day, not wanting to wear them, and them making him hot, uncomfortable, blotchy, itchy and irritable) then she needs to set out her case to the IRO for why she is right and the mother, SW and nursery are wrong.

Also- advocating for a child who isn’t having their needs met is NOT ‘complaining’.

GleeFull · 24/02/2024 14:20

There’s some people on this thread who have strong opinions but clearly no idea of this child’s legal right to dignity. His dignity is not just about what he’s wearing or dressing in ‘girls’ clothes, it’s about feeling comfortable, safe and secure. He can’t vocalise this but his rights are no less relevant. I’ve seen amazing foster carers in my job, going above and beyond, but sadly in any job, that’s not always the case. Let’s be clear, the carers are paid to deliver a service on behalf of the LA. Yes it must be challenging at times and all respect to carers for that. But there’s a duty there and it can’t be ignored.
if it helps, article 23 rights of the child is relevant here.
https://www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/UNCRC_summary-1_1.pdf

https://www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/UNCRC_summary-1_1.pdf

PTSDBarbiegirl · 24/02/2024 14:18

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:33

He has SEN so not able to fully protest or take them off. He is clearly uncomfortable and hot so mum has to take them off. The SW says it isn't respecting his dignity either - I think being that he can't express that he doesn't like them himself. Also surely if his mum has asked you not to put tights on him you would respect that? She sees him hot and uncomfortable in them and it is hard enough not having him living with her at the moment and then to have the FC not listening about this.

It could be a sensory thing and may provide a compression feeling which some like. I agree with PP if social worker has requested not dressing in tights I'd expect that to be respected but why is the mother focusing on criticising the foster carer instead of making the changes needed. Seems odd and sad too. Hope things improve soon.

WearyAuldWumman · 24/02/2024 14:18

lovelysoap · 24/02/2024 10:08

I think mum is focusing on the tights issue to avoid the real issue. Children are only taken into foster care as a very last resort. There is a huge lack of foster care spaces and they only go to the children most at risk of immediate serious harm and when there are no other suitable family members who are even able to care for the child on a temporary basis. Things generally need to be rock bottom for a child to be in foster care and not even dad or any of dads extended family or friends can care for the child. Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

i think that it is understandable that the family will focus on a small issue about the foster carer which is easier than facing up tot he very difficult reality that they cant keep a child safe despite social workers trying to work with them to keep the child safe for a long time.

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

Please, please read all of the OP's posts. Her sister has cancer. She can't take the little one because she has two SEN children of her own.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:17

MikeRafone · 24/02/2024 11:42

This ^

and it keeps him from losing socks in the buggy and feet getting cold. Culturally why are tights a female item of clothing? Many men wore tights through history, baby boys wore pink until 1940s as it was there colour, many boys wore dresses as babies

tights in winter are very sensible and a practical item of clothing for a toddler boy or girl

Please read the thread!

He doesn't lose his socks - he wears shoes over them - he's 4 not a baby.

He gets hot - red and blotchy and irritable. He is ND so quite possibly struggling with sensory overload from them. Not sensible and practical for him.

OP posts:
Rachie1973 · 24/02/2024 14:16

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

We’ve always done it to stop them pulling socks off

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 14:16

And I have definitely taken that from this thread instead of asking her not to do it we first need to find out why she is!

I think this a positive way of moving forward. Also to note that alongside all the knowing of his Mum, and you, and the nursery, that the only person who knows what it is to care for the boy right now, away from home, in these exceptional circumstances, is his foster carer. That is also its own unique thing, worthy of respect. You're all having different experiences with him, and you all have different things to contribute. Together you make a team. Absolutely, safeguard, but do allow for diversity.

AngelinaFibres · 24/02/2024 14:16

If the parent and SW have asked the Foster carer to stop then they stop.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 14:12

furryfrontbottom · 24/02/2024 13:54

I really don't understand how someone who has cancer can have the headspace to think about non-matching clothes.

I really don’t understand why you felt it necessary to make such an inane, inaccurate and inappropriate comment.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:12

Spanglemum75 · 24/02/2024 11:35

OP you are very patient. There some people on this thread who have NO CLUE about SEN/ALN and NO CLUE about foster care.

Can you say to her 'he gets too hot with tights under his trousers,,"?

Thank you, yes, this is a clear message.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:10

Italiangreyhound · 24/02/2024 11:31

Parents dressing their own kids in tights, up to you.

A foster carer going against the wishes of a parent is not right.

I'm also guessing a lot of poster may live in very cold climates. Where we live it is rarely 'that' cold and kids are rarely required to dress dir freezing temperatures. I won't ask where the OP is but I am guessing it is not freezing cold there.

Exactly not freezing cold here. Poor kids never get snow! 🥶😀

OP posts:
Seaweed42 · 24/02/2024 14:10

Playing devil's advocate here, but does the FC have other children of her own who will use these tights later on.

Sorry to hear about your family's troubles. Hope everyone makes good progress and things will get better soon.

WearyAuldWumman · 24/02/2024 14:10

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Yes. The OP is worried about her sister's cancer. Maybe read more of the thread. She's made it clear that her sister is concerned for her child's comfort.

Marchingforwards · 24/02/2024 14:09

I am a foster carer and I think the fc in this instance needs to respect the parents wishes as much as possible.

most parents will complain about clothing and hair styles when their children are living with a foster carer. This is a natural response to losing their child and their rights (even though they may not have lost parental rights it’s a minefield for everyone).

even if I believed the child should wear tights (maybe a cultural thing going on here) I would not dress a child in a way that causes unhappiness to the parent. Being friendly, respectful and kind is always the way I try to go.

I have had instances where I can’t dress the child as the parents insist and this has caused a lot of distress and distrust all around. It is so important that the carer understands and empathises with the parent as much as possible. I try to have a collaborative approach wherever possible. This is also what the child needs. They need to feel that mum is still very much there and cares and is involved. Otherwise they suffer more as in an acrimonious environment.

WearyAuldWumman · 24/02/2024 14:08

SKG231 · 24/02/2024 08:49

You say your sister is unwell and receiving treatment and that’s the reason why your nephew is in foster care. If you’re that bothered about the level of care he’s receiving why aren’t you or another family member stepping up and looking after him?

don’t go after a selfless person who fosters other peoples children because of an item of clothing she puts them in.

You've missed the post where the OP explains why she can't look after her nephew. There may be no other relatives around.

When I was caring for my parents and then my late husband, I had no family members able to give me a break since I'm an only child and I have no children of my own. When I had an operation, my mother had to go into respite care because I was physically unable to look after her, my father was dead by then and my husband was a stroke victim.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:07

wizzywig · 24/02/2024 11:28

Is there a reason why you can't look after him op?

To be fair I have answered this multiple times.

OP posts:
Castlereagh · 24/02/2024 14:07

Realistically tights on boys is really odd at 4 in most places. If he has sensory needs and needs something next to his skin OTs usually recommend skins like they wear at football. I can't work out why she would do this, if he is a nappy remover at 4 then drawstring jeans or drawstring joggers usually prevent this.

I would be contacting his IRO directly to advocate for him. I would also suggest mum complain to the foster carers supervising social worker.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 14:06

Miyagi99 · 24/02/2024 11:22

The undignified bit is a red herring, if he’s too hot he doesn’t need them. However I see nursery take them off then put them back on before sometime which makes a bit more sense. Does he sometimes walk to school? Are the children not outdoors at all? That doesn’t seem good if so, all children need fresh air.

Edited

The FC takes him to nursery by car. During the morning session they do have playtime outside but I think it is only 20-30minutes.

I feel sad reading about how he could be suffering with the tights. I did just think he was hot and that was causing discomfort but I actually didn't think he could experience what my DD and I do with tights - we hate them. I'm going to put something in writing to the SW about it.

OP posts:
rainbowunicorn · 24/02/2024 14:06

furryfrontbottom · 24/02/2024 13:54

I really don't understand how someone who has cancer can have the headspace to think about non-matching clothes.

You don't have to understand it. If that is what the mum wants to think about then it really does not matter. We are talking about a woman who has had their world turned upside down. Her child living with strangers and the possibility that she may not recover. If her child wearing what she wants him to wear and what will make him comfortabale then the bloody foster carer should be making taht happen. It really isn't hard.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 13:56

HMW1906 · 24/02/2024 11:18

Is he prone to taking his socks off? I’ve put my baby/younger toddler boy in tights under his trousers when it’s cold as he doesn’t keep his socks on, it’s either that or his has very cold feet. I’ve also put my boys tights on under trousers when it’s freezing outside, joggers aren’t all that warm so a. Extra layer helps.

The FC putting the child in tights wouldn’t be my hill to die on though, let it go, it’s nearly summer anyway so it won’t be an issue anymore.

No, he doesn't take his socks off anymore and it's not freezing. I would hope this wouldn't continue until summer (over 3 months away) with him getting increasingly hot and bothered.

OP posts:
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