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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

635 replies

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

OP posts:
WearyAuldWumman · 24/02/2024 17:58

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:14

Read the thread ffs.

I presume you are lucky enough to be surrounded by friends and family with plenty of money and space and time? So if you get cancer you can just ring up aunty Ann two doors down and everything will be hunky dory?

There are lots of single mums in the country who couldn’t magic up a family member or friend to take in a disabled 4 year old full time, on an on going basis.

Im sure the mother wishes the boy was with granny- but there isn’t one. I’m sure the op would prefer the child was with her- but he can’t be because she has 2 disabled children already.

This. Thank you for saying this.

When my mother was hospitalised, my maternal gran couldn't take me in because she was already in hospital. My dad was a coalminer on shift work, so could only look after me at weekends. My dad's family was abroad.

I was fortunate - an aunt and maternal uncle living in the same town took care of me during the week. At weekends when Dad took the bus to the next town to visit Mum, a neighbour watched me. Not everyone has that kind of support system.

SmokedPaprikaPuffs · 24/02/2024 17:57

Not much more you can do than to bring it up with the nursery staff and social worker. The reason should be for his comfort, I wouldn't bring his gender into it just keep stating you believe he is uncomfortable in tights.

WearyAuldWumman · 24/02/2024 17:51

Tatonka · 24/02/2024 10:06

Perhaps the family needs to step up and look after the child if there are other issues as well. I've just seen the comments re the tights

Read the OP's comments, then.

The child's mother has cancer. The OP has two children with SEN. You can't just magic additional family members out of thin air.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:42

Jellycatspyjamas · 24/02/2024 17:06

I really don't understand how someone who has cancer can have the headspace to think about non-matching clothes.

Sometimes you try to control the only things you have control over, and you try to keep a sense of normal in very abnormal circumstances. You don’t stop being a mum even with a cancer diagnosis and even when your child can’t live with you. I can completely understand why a mum might feel upset or anxious that her child wasn’t being dressed in a way she would want while she was unable to care for him.

Yes, exactly that. I actually had a serious illness myself some years ago. I was very ill in hospital but I still organised all my DC's Christmas presents, visit to Santa etc.

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/02/2024 17:39

Yes, it’s at the point where people are reading the clear updates and are still insisting on alternative facts to suit themselves.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:38

DeedlessIndeed · 24/02/2024 16:27

So many deliberately goady shit-stirrers on this thread.

OP, you're advocating on behalf of your sister and are doing it in your nephew's best interest. It must really be a comfort for her to know she has you for support.

Hang in there and I hope it all goes well.

Thank you so much

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:36

Wetblanket78 · 24/02/2024 15:52

My ex used to wear them under work trousers if working outside. It's to keep them warmer over winter. Is the child happy to be wearing them? I could understand if their going to the park or going to be outdoors all day over winter. She might be doing it to reduce her heating costs as well.

No, he's not happy wearing them.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:35

PTSDBarbiegirl · 24/02/2024 15:36

Perhaps you are not able to ascertain that I answered the OP, in that message asking for suggestions cancer treatment was not mentioned. Feel free to continue the reactionary condescension elsewhere, thanks.

That's why people read the updates before posting.

OP posts:
Marchingforwards · 24/02/2024 17:33

Your sister has every right to choose what her child will wear. I’m wondering has she sent all her son’s clothes with him? Maybe this would work. Say to the carer these are his clothes and this is how I like him to dress. This is what is comfortable for him.

As I said above- I’m a foster carer and I’d fully adhere to this. I’d probably just ask does the parent mind if there’s an accident when out and the pants need to be changed or dry clothes quickly provided, but other than that the child would be able to wear his own clothes and shoes if they were brought with the child.

op you’ve probably tried everything already but on Monday say very clearly - we do not want x to wear tights. He doesn’t like the feel of them. This is important to all of us as we have his needs and wants as the highest priority hence him being looked after right now. Please respect our wishes and decisions in this matter.
then say something like- thanks so much for taking care of him. I can tell he is settled because of the way he is when we see him at xyz. This makes us so relieved during this really difficult time.

you’re really not asking too much and I really am honoured when I can help the whole family and not only the child. It’s a job of service and all trust is placed with a carer. She should be working with you.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:33

SillySeal · 24/02/2024 15:19

I haven't been able to read the whole thread so sorry if this had already been covered.

I am a FC, my best advice to you would be to send an email so you have a paper trail to the CSW asking why the FC seems to insist on the child being in tights and your concerns. If you deem the response to be unacceptable then ask the CSW to explain to the foster child the BM wishes for the tights to not be used anymore -again in writing. If this doesn't stop, email the CSW manager and explain everything thats happened. If you get no further then the next stop would be to contact the IRO. Just make sure you have a paper trail. Everybody working/ part of social services needs a paper trail to back yourselves up. Or you may even get an answer you understand but I think not knowing why she's doing this is what's causing an issue.

Unless there is a really valid reason they are putting tights on under his trousers, the FC should be taking mums wishes into account. It helps build a good relationship between BM and FC, which is only a good thing for the child.

To me it seems a bit strange if he's not cold and uses vests that keep his nappy up anyway that he would be wearing tights. Personally I don't think it's undignified, just unnecessary from the comments you've made as he seems too hot. It's not a difficult thing to change, even if the offer is just of a compromise to not put him in them on contact days.

Good luck

Thank you for setting that out - very helpful.

I have thought that myself, why doesn't she at least put him in socks on the days he sees mum. But now after this thread I feel that they would be uncomfortable on him no matter the temperature/activity etc. and he needs to not be wearing them atall.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:22

PTSDBarbiegirl · 24/02/2024 15:07

JFC take a break. How would you know what the child needs?!!!!!

Because I have explained many times that the tights are uncomfortable for the little boy. @Theresstilltonighttocome has read my updates before commenting!

OP posts:
Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 17:20

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 16:43

Lol! Isn’t it sad and quite frankly utterly embarrassing how so many posters on this thread can’t just say “sorry my mistake, didn’t read all OP’s post” etc when they realise that not only are they wrong, but they’ve been very insensitive and waded bluntly into what is a very delicate situation?

A few have apologised but many just slinked off quietly after being called out or even worse doubled down.

@Theresstilltonighttocome is doing an especially good job of correcting these kind of posters! You‘d think at this stage new people joining the thread would’ve got the message but no such luck :/

Edited

I’m hormonal atm, and the utter lack of thought and empathy has really got up my nose.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:16

BimBimBaloo · 24/02/2024 14:50

As a fostering social worker, I'm deeply aware of that, I was trying to establish with the OP if there was any alternative care options if the foster carer continues to add further stress to the mother going through a very difficult time.

Unfortunately, not.

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 24/02/2024 17:06

I really don't understand how someone who has cancer can have the headspace to think about non-matching clothes.

Sometimes you try to control the only things you have control over, and you try to keep a sense of normal in very abnormal circumstances. You don’t stop being a mum even with a cancer diagnosis and even when your child can’t live with you. I can completely understand why a mum might feel upset or anxious that her child wasn’t being dressed in a way she would want while she was unable to care for him.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:06

GleeFull · 24/02/2024 14:20

There’s some people on this thread who have strong opinions but clearly no idea of this child’s legal right to dignity. His dignity is not just about what he’s wearing or dressing in ‘girls’ clothes, it’s about feeling comfortable, safe and secure. He can’t vocalise this but his rights are no less relevant. I’ve seen amazing foster carers in my job, going above and beyond, but sadly in any job, that’s not always the case. Let’s be clear, the carers are paid to deliver a service on behalf of the LA. Yes it must be challenging at times and all respect to carers for that. But there’s a duty there and it can’t be ignored.
if it helps, article 23 rights of the child is relevant here.
https://www.unicef.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/UNCRC_summary-1_1.pdf

Thank you for that - I will have a look.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 17:02

PTSDBarbiegirl · 24/02/2024 14:18

It could be a sensory thing and may provide a compression feeling which some like. I agree with PP if social worker has requested not dressing in tights I'd expect that to be respected but why is the mother focusing on criticising the foster carer instead of making the changes needed. Seems odd and sad too. Hope things improve soon.

What changes?

She's not criticising the FC she is advocating for her DS. He does not like the feel of tights.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 16:53

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 14:16

And I have definitely taken that from this thread instead of asking her not to do it we first need to find out why she is!

I think this a positive way of moving forward. Also to note that alongside all the knowing of his Mum, and you, and the nursery, that the only person who knows what it is to care for the boy right now, away from home, in these exceptional circumstances, is his foster carer. That is also its own unique thing, worthy of respect. You're all having different experiences with him, and you all have different things to contribute. Together you make a team. Absolutely, safeguard, but do allow for diversity.

As I've said this is not about policing what she does when she is looking after him. We do respect her and the difficult job she is doing. And yes, we want to work as a team.

OP posts:
Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 16:43

Carpediemmakeitcount · 24/02/2024 15:26

Don't feel silly we all make mistakes.

Lol! Isn’t it sad and quite frankly utterly embarrassing how so many posters on this thread can’t just say “sorry my mistake, didn’t read all OP’s post” etc when they realise that not only are they wrong, but they’ve been very insensitive and waded bluntly into what is a very delicate situation?

A few have apologised but many just slinked off quietly after being called out or even worse doubled down.

@Theresstilltonighttocome is doing an especially good job of correcting these kind of posters! You‘d think at this stage new people joining the thread would’ve got the message but no such luck :/

Carpediemmakeitcount · 24/02/2024 16:42

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 16:13

I'm sorry about your mum 😔 I'm so scared about what will happen...

Your sister is lucky to have you in her life looking out for her. She will get better and she will be reunited with her child. Your friend hasn't given up the fight.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 16:41

Seaweed42 · 24/02/2024 14:10

Playing devil's advocate here, but does the FC have other children of her own who will use these tights later on.

Sorry to hear about your family's troubles. Hope everyone makes good progress and things will get better soon.

Thank you.

And no, she has an older FC.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 16:38

Marchingforwards · 24/02/2024 14:09

I am a foster carer and I think the fc in this instance needs to respect the parents wishes as much as possible.

most parents will complain about clothing and hair styles when their children are living with a foster carer. This is a natural response to losing their child and their rights (even though they may not have lost parental rights it’s a minefield for everyone).

even if I believed the child should wear tights (maybe a cultural thing going on here) I would not dress a child in a way that causes unhappiness to the parent. Being friendly, respectful and kind is always the way I try to go.

I have had instances where I can’t dress the child as the parents insist and this has caused a lot of distress and distrust all around. It is so important that the carer understands and empathises with the parent as much as possible. I try to have a collaborative approach wherever possible. This is also what the child needs. They need to feel that mum is still very much there and cares and is involved. Otherwise they suffer more as in an acrimonious environment.

Thank you, that is all we want.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 16:34

furryfrontbottom · 24/02/2024 13:54

I really don't understand how someone who has cancer can have the headspace to think about non-matching clothes.

Her DC means everything to her and like most of us will always be first in her mind no matter what she's going through. Many parents enjoy dressing their DC and making them look nice.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 16:31

Soontobe60 · 24/02/2024 13:51

This in bucketfuls! The best FCs I have worked with managed to foster a family of 4 siblings who had had what can only be described as a feral start in life, nurtured them in such a positive way that all 4 siblings as adults still choose to live with / nearby the FCs and consider them their parents. On the other hand, I have had to attend safeguarding CP conferences where the FC decided to employ what can only be considered to be abusive punishments when the child ‘misbehaved’, including making them stand in the corner facing the wall for hours, depriving them of meals if they didn’t eat their previous meal and so on.

That's awful 😞 But good on the FC keeping 4 siblings together!

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 16:29

theduchessofspork · 24/02/2024 13:50

It must be terribly hard on your sister, but this illustrates the point really.

The FC presumably has a few kids to look after. You have to assume she’s doing her best. If she thinks he’s chilly and needs tights then when he is in her care it is her call. It’s not for the SW to get involved in basic care, and her comment that it’s undignified is silly.

I can imagine you are also distressed OP, but the best thing you can do for everyone, including your sister and nephew is defuse the situation. It is simply not a big deal.

Yes, she does have another older DC to care for. But this what I'm saying although mum doesn't like it she doesn't say anything about his clothes. As at the end of the day it won't affect her DS. But in the situation of the tights it is affecting him. He is a hot boy, in this mild weather he is never chilly. It is upsetting for him to arrive at his mother's hot and irritable. I sometimes pick him up in the buggy and can't change him til we get home. So even being outside it is not cold enough for him to wear tights under trousers. I suspect that no matter the weather then tights are uncomfortable for him due to his ND.

OP posts:
DeedlessIndeed · 24/02/2024 16:27

So many deliberately goady shit-stirrers on this thread.

OP, you're advocating on behalf of your sister and are doing it in your nephew's best interest. It must really be a comfort for her to know she has you for support.

Hang in there and I hope it all goes well.

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