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Original poster

To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

635 replies

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:34

NuffSaidSam · 23/02/2024 23:49

The only person who can answer that is her. None of us can tell you why she thinks he's cold . Maybe she's one of those people who also feels cold herself and so thinks he's cold too? Maybe her house is very cold? Maybe she was doing it over winter when it was cold and is just doing out of habit? Only she knows!

I think unless he's becoming dangerously overheated it's really not a big problem. Presumably, quite a small problem in the grand scheme of things if he's been removed from his parents! Does his mum give thanks for all the care he's getting from the foster carer or is it just moaning about him being a little bit warm in the clothes she dresses him in?

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I think if he's hot and miserable then it is a big problem. Why should he have to suffer that?

I've not said he's been removed from his parents. Yes, she is thankful. But he's not a little bit warm. He's covered in red blotches and crying.

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Vye1988 · 24/02/2024 00:31

I think the language being used is the issue and will not help, feels awfully like making a mountain out of a molehill.

Next LAC review bring up that child gets very warm, can this being considered when dressing him, throw in a couple of options, e.g. if he is cold in the morning could he have a blanket in the car etc...

There is absolutely nothing undignified about a 4 year old yearing tights under trousers in the winter, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and if a social worker said this to me I would ignore them too, and if they insisted on using the word 'undignified' I would complain.

My son is six and has worn tights in the winter because he spends a lot of time outside and gets cold. He did not stop being a boy when I bought them!

The issue is his comfort, not that a small child is wearing tights under trousers.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:30

Zoreos · 23/02/2024 23:49

As the child has sensory issues and is unable to advocate his needs for himself but you can see he’s too hot/ uncomfortable I would definitely push back against this big time. I’d keep binning the tights every time and explain firmly that as it’s expressly against the wishes of mum and SW has agreed that this needs to stop immediately. That and the fact it’s totally unnecessary and harming the child by making him too hot and uncomfortable. Why should the poor child continue to be uncomfortable because the FC is obviously batshit. Nobody of any sex needs tights under trousers in this weather. Make a formal complaint to social care. I’d also be speaking to nursery as well and making them aware of the situation.

Edited

Thanks for the advise.

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Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:29

ZebraPensAreLife · 23/02/2024 23:48

I’m really surprised a social worker has the time or inclination to care about tights in the first place!

Or that anyone would think tights were “undignified” - has anyone told various actors?

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I'm sure she wants him to be comfortable. Surely she should care about that. Various actors in what situations? Were they made to wear tights which made them hot and uncomfortable while all the other boys were nice and comfy in socks?

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DyslexicPoster · 24/02/2024 00:29

Idk I put tights on my baby and toddler sons as they pulled their socks off at the childminders. Childminder was a very experienced woman and wasn't fazed at barefooted kids in all weather's, but it bovered me. All before they could talk though

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:27

Opine · 23/02/2024 23:47

It’s normal in most of Europe to put tights on boys. The English are obsessed with boys versus girls clothing and that’s why children in the UK, especially boys, aren’t very well dressed. On holiday you can spot English children a mile off.

If your relative doesn’t like it she can just pass that onto the FC but the whole ‘undignified for boys’ argument is really ignorant.

I know my friends from Northern Europe do in the winter because it is freezing there - it isn't here! It is too warm for tights and trousers. That's a fact. I couldn't care less whether not wearing tights makes a child 'not well dressed' they should be comfortable in their clothes! I think the SW is just pointing out that only the girls of his peers will be wearing tights and as he can't express a preference he should be dressed like the other boys. It's completely different if it is cold and all the other boys will be wearing tights!

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BreadInCaptivity · 24/02/2024 00:26

sprigatito · 24/02/2024 00:21

I'm not sure it's appropriate for his mother to be dictating to his foster carer about details that don't have any safeguards implications, such as clothing choices. It's not workable. He's in the care of a foster carer who presumably is trained and supervised, so his mother needs to accept that and not attempt to micromanage. Would she complain he was given chicken nuggets for a quick dinner, or allowed a packet of Wotsits? Those are things some parents would consider poor choices for a toddler too, but they aren't outside the normal range of caregiving and they may well happen in a care setting. His mother would be better off leaving the foster carer to do her job and focusing on whatever the situation is that led to his being taken into care. If there are serious concerns about his care, the SW should be handling them.

It's absolutely a concern if the child is being dressed in clothing that is uncomfortable for them.

SEN children are often very reliant on people advocating for them and anticipating their needs.

The child's mother is still their mother even if the child is in FC and she and her family can and should advocate for their best interests.

TheOriginalEmu · 24/02/2024 00:24

The bigger issue is the foster carer not taking mum and SWs opinion into account. I was a registered foster carer for 15 years and any time the parents had an issue with a thing I did, as long as it wasn’t about safety or health then it was my job to do it. Because it’s not about me, my job is to keep the child safe until they can be reunited with their family. Full stop.
I think this needs bringing up at a meeting about things. The foster carer isn’t god and should be listening.

fakeprofile · 24/02/2024 00:23

sprigatito · 24/02/2024 00:21

I'm not sure it's appropriate for his mother to be dictating to his foster carer about details that don't have any safeguards implications, such as clothing choices. It's not workable. He's in the care of a foster carer who presumably is trained and supervised, so his mother needs to accept that and not attempt to micromanage. Would she complain he was given chicken nuggets for a quick dinner, or allowed a packet of Wotsits? Those are things some parents would consider poor choices for a toddler too, but they aren't outside the normal range of caregiving and they may well happen in a care setting. His mother would be better off leaving the foster carer to do her job and focusing on whatever the situation is that led to his being taken into care. If there are serious concerns about his care, the SW should be handling them.

Agree with this. In my area (and many others I believe), foster carers are few and far between. as long as the child is safe and well cared for, you really should pick your battles rather than antagonise the person who is presumably giving the child a secure home.

ZiriForGood · 24/02/2024 00:21

It's totally valid to discuss the warmth perspective, but I don't get the "undignified" part. Some girls hate tights, some boys are ok wearing them, tights are functional wear, not a sex specific one.

sprigatito · 24/02/2024 00:21

I'm not sure it's appropriate for his mother to be dictating to his foster carer about details that don't have any safeguards implications, such as clothing choices. It's not workable. He's in the care of a foster carer who presumably is trained and supervised, so his mother needs to accept that and not attempt to micromanage. Would she complain he was given chicken nuggets for a quick dinner, or allowed a packet of Wotsits? Those are things some parents would consider poor choices for a toddler too, but they aren't outside the normal range of caregiving and they may well happen in a care setting. His mother would be better off leaving the foster carer to do her job and focusing on whatever the situation is that led to his being taken into care. If there are serious concerns about his care, the SW should be handling them.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:20

FabFebHalfTerm · 23/02/2024 23:46

@SecondHandFurniture

the SW says it's not protecting his dignity.

it's not about being too warm or anything sensible. It's just stupidity, I'd not be listening to her either!

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He is too hot in them as I said in my OP! But at the end of the day the FC does not have parental responsibility for him and it is appropriate for them to listen to his mum and the SW.

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hawtrain · 24/02/2024 00:20

I think it's disrespectful of the FC. There's nothing wrong with tights but if the parent has asked her not to and the SW has agreed, the FC shouldn't be dressing him in them.

BreadInCaptivity · 24/02/2024 00:19

Your sister need to take her concerns (potentially with your help) up with the SW again.

Ideally in writing and be detailed about your concerns which need to be child centric.

By which means don't focus on tights are not for boys but that he is too hot/uncomfortable (how do you know? How does he express this?) Be specific.

However be mindful that FC's are like unicorns and in short supply.

I'm not suggesting you don't raise concerns - you absolutely should, but I would be conscious of being very evidential and specific about the concern and what you want to achieve.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:19

TheTimeIsNowMaybeNow · 23/02/2024 23:40

He's 4, he doesn't need tights under his trousers when he's at nursery or in the house. Actually I'd say he doesn't need them at all and if the sw has asked her to stop then she should stop

He really doesn't need them.

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Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:18

Franklyfrost · 23/02/2024 23:39

Children often have clothing preferences based on how the clothes feel and like (or dislike) certain textures or tight/loose clothing. Sensory sensitivity is especially common in children who are struggling in other ways (like being in care). I imagine that the kid wants to wear tights and the trousers on top are a compromise to help him fit in. If it makes the child’s life easier then it’s a good thing. Building a working relationship with those looking after your relative is going to help your relative a lot more than stopping your relative from wearing tights.

No he doesn't like them as they make him too hot.

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Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:17

StressefHousePurchase · 23/02/2024 23:38

Don’t see a problem with it

So it's fine for him to be uncomfortable? And for the FC to ignore the wishes of his mother?

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Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:16

BobbyBiscuits · 23/02/2024 23:37

The SW claiming it's undignified? I'm sorry but that sounds ridiculous. If he doesn't like them then can't he use his words? If he doesn't mind then what's the problem. In warm weather I'd imagine they wouldn't be necessary and he will surely be able to choose what he wears to an extent?

As I've said he has SEN - he can't 'use his words'. They aren't necessary now - it's 10c! He is too hot.

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NewName24 · 24/02/2024 00:16

I said that because his mum was upset about kids at nursery making fun of him as tights are usually put on girls.

This part is ridiculous. a) they wouldn't even know what he has on under his trousers and b) children in Nursery don't make fun of what other children wear. Seriously, all of them wonder round in all sorts of strange mixtures of clothing throughout the day.

If the Nursery has a little one with SEND, who is non-verbal, they will be very aware of how comfortable or otherwise he is temperature wise and would have left the tights off at nappy changing time if that were an issue.

So I am inclined to agree with all of those saying that you, and his birth mother are focusing on the wrong thing here.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Where did I say he was in FC because her parenting was poor?!

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Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:12

Firecarrier · 23/02/2024 23:36

Of course it is weird and not right for every day wear fir a 4 year old boy. I don't care who that offends.

This is mumsnet so you will get all sorts telling you they do it. In a working class area you would NEVER see this.

I am a Foster carer, she is being extremely innapropriate and unfeeling towards the mother.

I have always considered the parents feelings by making them feel as involved as possible in decisions like this even if they don't directly ask me.

He is NOT her son, she needs to remember that!

I have always had fantastic relationships with the birth families. I cannot believe she is ignoring the SW.

Thank you for understanding. She is really hard work and I wish she would not have to make issues of things which doesn't help when mum is so unwell. We do appreciate her looking after him, though, if course. This is all new to us and hard to know how to navigate!

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AndThatWasNY · 24/02/2024 00:10

BobbyBiscuits · 23/02/2024 23:37

The SW claiming it's undignified? I'm sorry but that sounds ridiculous. If he doesn't like them then can't he use his words? If he doesn't mind then what's the problem. In warm weather I'd imagine they wouldn't be necessary and he will surely be able to choose what he wears to an extent?

Don't use the term "use his words". Which sounds pretty victim blaming about a child in care.
He has almost certainly learnt that "his words" aren't being listened to many vital moments.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:10

Slanabhaile · 23/02/2024 23:36

I don't see that you've said HE'S uncomfortable. Just that you and BM don't want him in tights in case kids make fun.
How does the child feel about wearing tights? I agree with PP, it would be a tough job to get tights onto an unwilling 4yr old.

I did in my OP - I said when I saw him the other day he was so hot.

He is non-verbal so can't express his feelings. But once the tights were off and he had cooled down he was his usual happy self.

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Original poster
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 00:07

shoppingshamed · 23/02/2024 23:35

What does the foster cater say when asked not to do this? She/he is the only one who can explain the reasoning

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She doesn't say much! Not to us, anyway. I mean she sort of says ok, but then puts him in them again. It's baffling. She's a nice lady and obviously cares a lot about the little boy/puts a lot of effort into his care but she's quite hard work too.

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