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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

635 replies

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

OP posts:
redsky21 · 24/02/2024 08:58

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Have you actually read any of the OP's post? Mum is unwell and not able to look after her child. Some proper judgemental dicks on this thread.
Tights on boys is not the issue, the problem is the child is too hot and the foster carer is ignoring parental wishes. I would put in a formal complaint if this continues.

Tarsandcase · 24/02/2024 08:56

Lumiodes · 24/02/2024 08:31

If the child has been taken into foster care then tights are the least of his problems. If Mum wants to decide what he wears then maybe don’t get him taken off you?

Please read the thread before commenting again. I don't think the mum wants to have cancer or have her child in foster care

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:56

Tatonka · 24/02/2024 06:13

Do you mean leggings? I put my son in leggings, they're much more comfy and flexible than boys pants. They're also warmer and cheaper.

No, tights, with jogging bottoms over the top.

OP posts:
Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 08:56

Chickenpie35 · 24/02/2024 08:05

Wow this up there with the worst ive read on here

She's clearly just keeping him warm.

Both my boys wore tights even for nursery.

H&m sell boys tights! With boys patterns on, so it's really not that unheard of or obscure and when I didn't have patterned boys tights they just wore plain tights because they are warm and play out in all westhers at nursery and when they were still in a pram neither liked foot muff, cosy toes or blankets on them so they were put in tights because I might have been warm walking miles but they were sat still in a pram and not keeping warm by moving.

Not once did it ever cross my mind that:
Other kids would notice they had "girls" clothing on,
The nursery staff would be like oh look shes put her boy in tights, GIRL tights let's tell her how bad of a parent she is,
Not once did I think it was unacceptable...... until it was too warm.

Only ever thought about my kids being warm and comfortable.

To be so offended says more about you than anyone else especially the person you're annoyed at grow up

Absolute bollocks. It isn’t about your kids, or how hot or cold they are- it’s about this child and hot or cold HE is.

HE is too hot and uncomfortable- the nursery staff who have known him longer than the FC can see this- they remove the tights, his family who know him better than anyone can see this, and they remove them. The SW can see this and has told the FC to stop, as have the family.

The FC is there to take care of the child while the mum gets over cancer- this is a devastating situation for the child (who already has SEND to deal with), and the family.

The FC should be 100% prioritising the safety and comfort of the child, and should be being guided on all issues by the mother (who still has PR in all matters), and the SW who is aware of the child’s SEND- that is her job.

The SW might have views on gendered clothing that you don’t agree with (neither do I), and presumably the FC doesn’t either- but that is totally irrelevant.

If the FC isn’t capable of discerning the child’s needs herself by observing him being hot/red in the face/irritable, and isn’t willing to listen to his mother (who’s only crime is to be ill with cancer and not have a family member who has the capacity to take in a disabled 4 year old indefinitely), the nursery professionals or the SW- what the fuck else isnt she able to see?!

Just try and imagine being a single mum with a disabled 4 year old, finding out you have cancer and the treatment you need to try and stay alive is going to make you so so ill that the only option is for someone else, that you don’t know, to step in and take care of your child.

You are deathly ill, and you have to make the selfless decision to allow your disabled 4 year old, whom you know will be devastated and frightened, and who doesn’t even have the language to express that, to go and live with a stranger.

You have to trust that that stranger will take care of your child, be kind to them and meet their already complex needs at a time when they are incredibly emotionally and physically vulnerable- you trust them to do that while knowing that they don’t love your child like you do.

And then that FC ignores a simple request, from 3 different sources- she has the arrogance to think she knows your child, whom you have brought up for 4 years and whose every need is as clear as day to you, better than you.

And you think you wouldn’t be bothered and @TotoroElla and the child’s mother should ‘grow up’?!

You wouldn’t think, if she can’t see he is too hot and she doesn’t care how I, as his mother, want him to be cared for- then what else is she doing? Is she feeding him properly? Does she know when he is full or hungry? Can she tell when his nappy needs to be changed? Does she notice when he is frightened and misses his mummy, and does she reassure him?

You would be a grown up would you, and turn off all your care and worry for your child?

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:56

Dibbydoos · 24/02/2024 06:07

@TotoroElla when you said he kept taking his socks off, I wondered if he was SEN.

Bless him. The FM needs to listen to the SW and his mum. A child overheating is a risk esp when they can't express they're too hot.

It's not about male/female - I never put my DS into tights cos I didnt think to cos you can buy weather appropriate clothes - it's about his wellbeing, so when conversations happen, be clearer that it's his wellbeing not a boy/girl thing and if she still doesn't stop it, ask for a justification.

Thank you, I will make sure this is clearly communicated.

OP posts:
Tarsandcase · 24/02/2024 08:55

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Have you read the thread?

PurpleBugz · 24/02/2024 08:55

Could this turn out to be long term care? I've got nothing to base this on from the op but I wonder if in a couple years the FC will be saying this is a trans child based on the fact he's worn 'girls clothes like tights' for a while. SEN kids and kids in care are the most vulnerable groups for being pushed into transition. They are actively targeted.

Hopefully this isn't the case here but I think you should be aware of the influences on our kids. I have a high need SEN kid the trans influence is rife in all support services we have come across

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:54

Autumn1990 · 24/02/2024 05:55

if he’s sen the tights could be causing a sensory issues as well. My eldest has sensory issues and would rather be a bit cold than were something like tights next to the skin. To keep a child like this warm you can use a fleece lined puddle suit if they’re walking or a blanket in the pushchair

To posters saying other children won’t notice, at 4 there are definitely children who will notice differences and point them out.

The foster mother should be taking notice of the social worker

I agree that there could be DC who will notice and comment. Not to be nasty or to tease, but just in the way DC do comment on things. I remember when my DS was small there was a particular little boy who would always point things out to him like 'Cinderella is for girls', 'that pink ball is for girls'.

OP posts:
Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

isitshe · 24/02/2024 08:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

@thebestinterest I haven't read any replies past yours. I read the first few on page one, then tapped 'See all' to read all the OP's posts. It's very easy to do. I saw OP's quote of your post.
I hope you've had your arse handed to you in subsequent replies for what you said and I hope you're ashamed that you said it.

Fiflaboeuf · 24/02/2024 08:51

apologies if someone already said it but it culturally quite normal for young boys to wear tights in central and Eastern Europe and also in Scandinavia I think.

yikesanotherbooboo · 24/02/2024 08:51

My now adult DSes regularly wore tights until school age. If they hadn't wanted to they wouldn't have long before they were 4.I , too, find it odd to hear that they are teased for it at nursery age. DC wear and style themselves in all sorts of ways that aren't conventional

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:49

CHEESEY13 · 24/02/2024 05:49

Does the foster carer have TransGender issues?

I'm not sure what you mean?

OP posts:
SKG231 · 24/02/2024 08:49

You say your sister is unwell and receiving treatment and that’s the reason why your nephew is in foster care. If you’re that bothered about the level of care he’s receiving why aren’t you or another family member stepping up and looking after him?

don’t go after a selfless person who fosters other peoples children because of an item of clothing she puts them in.

Numberttwotwo · 24/02/2024 08:49

Is he trying to get to his nappy maybe? Clothing can be used to discourage smearing etc.

Rosestulips · 24/02/2024 08:48

Lumiodes · 24/02/2024 08:31

If the child has been taken into foster care then tights are the least of his problems. If Mum wants to decide what he wears then maybe don’t get him taken off you?

Next, read the part where op says mother has cancer.

Do you think she had choice in this matter?

God there are some awful people on here

JCLV · 24/02/2024 08:47

Opine · 23/02/2024 23:47

It’s normal in most of Europe to put tights on boys. The English are obsessed with boys versus girls clothing and that’s why children in the UK, especially boys, aren’t very well dressed. On holiday you can spot English children a mile off.

If your relative doesn’t like it she can just pass that onto the FC but the whole ‘undignified for boys’ argument is really ignorant.

What a ridiculous comment. Where do you live where the kids are such models of appropriate dress then?

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:47

Lwrenn · 24/02/2024 05:37

@TotoroElla I'm sorry to hear about your sister, this must be all shades of stressful for you all.
My mum had cancer when I was little and I lived with various people until she was better, I can't imagine how upsetting this is for her, end of the day, if she doesn't want her child wearing a red t shirt, as his mum that is her choice.

I have looked after children of family/pals over the years as emergency FC and had an SGO and can't imagine going against the children's parents wishes in this way.

I was wondering because of SEN (I have 2 sen sons) if the wee boy is distressed being somewhere new away from mum are the tights to stop him smearing? Very common sen behaviour, often see smearers in leopards or something else to make getting access to smear more difficult? That's the only reason I can think of.

Either way, such a horrid situation and I hope, as my mum did, your sister makes a full recovery x

Thank you, that's kind. That's not an issue as far as I know but it is useful to know so we can check.

OP posts:
twogooddogs · 24/02/2024 08:47

Regardless of all the issues as to why the child is in care, the carer should be working with the family and SW and mum either retains or shares PR depending on legal arrangements. If carer is ignoring a seemingly reasonable request there are options to resolve this: the carer will have her own SW, child’s SW can involve her if she hasn’t already done so. Or, child will have an IRO (independent reviewing officer), mum can approach IRO and ask them to intervene- there will be an informal and formal dispute process to address such issues and/or discuss at child’s review. Or there will be a complaints process that can be used. Obviously better to try and resolve without a formal complaint if possible but can be escalated as required. Note: obv I don t know all circumstances but this is professional advice I would offer to any parent with a child in care.

Rosestulips · 24/02/2024 08:46

BreatheAndFocus · 24/02/2024 08:34

But perhaps she doesn’t even get why the tights aren’t ok? It’s like saying why did she bring the child along with hair longer than an inch because ‘everyone knows boys need shaved heads with very short hair because hair round the ears or hair that’s curling at all is for girls’. That’s equally ridiculous.

Maybe the mum needs to look at her regressive ideas and the message they might send in future? This week I saw a mum in the supermarket snapping at her son when he pointed to a pink character Easter egg and said that was the one he wanted for Easter. She told him it was “for girls”. When he said “but I like it”, she took his hand and pulled him away.

Pretty much all attitudes like that stem from homophobia IMO. Poor little boy.

Another person who is projecting their own views and judgements rather than reading the OPs concerns.

it’s because he’s too hot!

Mumof2NDers · 24/02/2024 08:45

I used to put tights on DS1 when he was little because the bugger used to pull his socks off and end up with feet like ice blocks.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:44

Voone · 24/02/2024 05:08

Did you notice if the FC seems to dress particularly warmly or snugly herself?
I've noticed with some 'always freezing' people that I know that they are always overdressing their kids, even small babies despite all of the warnings that are constantly given about overheating.
Also as the kids get older and complain about being too hot they ignore the protests and overdress them despite them clearly being sweaty and uncomfortable.

Edited

This is what my guess is the issue. I've known people like that trying to put fleece, coat, hat, gloves, scarf on a DC when all the other DC had only the coat which had been abandoned too.

OP posts:
theduchessofspork · 24/02/2024 08:43

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:43

Well, no, not for a laugh. I just can't understand why she won't take on board that it is too warm for them and he gets uncomfortable and that the SW feels it is undignified and his mum has asked her to stop. He returns with socks on and hasn't frozen on the journey so why does she think he is cold?

If she puts him in them then It’ll be because it’s colder at her house/nursery than at his mother’s house.

So take them off when he’s visiting home.

It will make no difference to him or the other kids at nursery. It’s nonsense to say it’s undignified. Foster carers do need to be able to get on with the job, and they need some autonomy to do that. Many look after several kids at a once and need to be able to get them dressed and out quickly.

The most useful thing you could do is discourage the mother from making a big deal of this

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 24/02/2024 08:40

Lumiodes · 24/02/2024 08:31

If the child has been taken into foster care then tights are the least of his problems. If Mum wants to decide what he wears then maybe don’t get him taken off you?

Wow, that’s nasty. Op has already stated that his mother has cancer.

And the mother surely would have preferred to be his main carer. And to be cancer free!

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 08:39

Lka8 · 24/02/2024 05:05

It was this temp here yesterday but somehow absolutely biting in the wind.

My DD wears tights most days as socks don’t last a minute. She pulls them straight off and her feet then feel like ice. Surely it’s purely that he’s been cold on occasion? I’d be glad they are keeping him warm.

I don’t have a son but if I did, I’d definitely put him in tights when a baby if anything like my DD and this would even be with shorts (eg like the royal babies), and encourage a layer like thick leggings under loose trousers when older. Some babies in my DD’s baby group wear a full babygrow under something like a full length romper so the foster parent isn’t the only one doing things like this tbh.

The issue of tights being gendered to you is irrelevant as they’re not on show in your nephew’s case. I would argue tights can be worn by boys albeit rarely are as in my example above.

He's not in the wind, though. Yes, babies pull off socks but he's not a baby.

Would you really encourage thick leggings under trousers even if making the DC uncomfortable? And he's not wearing loose trousers anyway.

I didn't say anything about the tights being 'gendered' to me. Only that the SW thinks he should be dressed the same as the other little boys and that mum worried about other DC noticing.

OP posts: