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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think she shouldn't put him in tights?

635 replies

TotoroElla · 23/02/2024 23:01

Just trying to understand and find a way forward.

A family member's little boy is in foster care currently. He is 4 yo. The FC keeps putting him in tights. His mum is getting upset with it and doesn't understand why she keeps doing it. She has asked for her to stop and the SW has asked her to stop too. Mum doesn't feel it is very dignified for him to be at nursery wearing what is culturally a girls' clothes item. He was getting so hot in them the other day as of course he has trousers over them.

Can anyone shed any light as to why she is doing this or what his mum can do about it?

OP posts:
Stillanothernamechange · 24/02/2024 10:52

I clicked on the thread title all prepared to be outraged at gender-restrictive norms (as someone who regularly puts boys that age in tights if they’re cold), then read that the boy is in foster care AND HIS SOCIAL WORKER HAS ASKED THE FOSTER CARER TO STOP.

Because I’m not a massive bellend, I reassessed my pre-judgment of the situation at that point. Didn’t even need to find out that the reason he’s in foster care is that his mother has cancer.

Sorry about all the bellends on your post OP 💐

Haveyoubrushedyourteeth · 24/02/2024 10:51

Bloody hell I don't think I've ever read a nastier thread on here! Some of you posters should be utterly ashamed of yourselves.

I just can't imagine how hard this is for you all OP, I think in your shoes I'd be focusing on the too hot issues (I still remember how sweaty and itchy wooly tights are, especially behind the knees, and I only ever wore them with dresses) But I'd also try and appeal to the compassion of the FC. Mum has so much to worry about, and is going through so much that something as simple as no tights would make a massive difference to her. She's got so little control over what's happening to him, or herself, and this is such an easy fix that any decent human being would do it unless there was an essential reason not to such as smearing etc in which case I'd send him with thin leggings for underneath to at least stop the itchiness.

Sending love to you all. The way you've kept your cool on here with such unpleasantness is exemplary. I hope things improve very soon.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:51

GleeFull · 24/02/2024 09:07

i assume mum still holds parental responsibility so her requests should be respected. If he was outside on a snowy walk but indoors it sounds completely unnecessary. Social workers do uphold people’s dignity. I think some people are giving you a hard time OP

Yes, I find it strange people think a SW wouldn't be talking about dignity. That's the first person I would think would be talking about it.

OP posts:
SanctusInDistress · 24/02/2024 10:51

I put tights on my son when he was little and cold outside, and he was warm and cosy. I don’t think anybody else even noticed. He’s 15 now and has not been scarred by it.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:49

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 09:03

It doesn't matter why he's in foster care, what matters is that he is, that's he's away from his family. Maybe he likes wearing tights, maybe they help him feel snug and secure and protected, like swaddling for a baby, or a blankie. Maybe that's what the carer has picked up on.

My point is focus on the important stuff, not stereotypical boys and girls clothing.

I've already said multiple times - he does not like wearing them. They make him too hot. The majority of DC would be too hot in tights and joggers in this mild weather. This little boy runs hot so he is even more uncomfortable. Mum (who has looked after him for over 4 years) has 'picked up' on that.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 24/02/2024 10:44

Having standards for foster carers isn't 'going after' them. If you think there should be any kind of sacred caste working around children, you need to take another safeguarding course.

TathingScinsel · 24/02/2024 10:43

My little boy was an extraordinarily long, slim child (his dad is 6’7”) so I used to dress him in tights or leggings for older girls with boy’s shorts over the top. It didn’t look ‘female coded’ because the tights were always thick grey or navy and the shorts were knee length or longer in cargo/combat style, plus woolly socks at the bottom made the tights less obviously tights-looking.
This was back in the 00s when leggings for males were largely limited to adult cycle couriers but I expect there is much more commercial availability now?

Regardless of me not agreeing that tights should be limited to girls only, if the mum is unhappy and the social worker agrees with the mum then the foster carer should stop.
It’s a bit different if you have full parental responsibility for the child than if you don’t.
It’s not cold enough in the UK right now to justify via the extra layer excuse and if it gets really cold then specialised cold weather gear exists (eg salopettes).

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:43

don’t go after a selfless person who fosters other peoples children because of an item of clothing she puts them in.

I wouldn’t assume someone is a good or selfless person because they are foster carers. In my experience there were some outstanding foster carers who made me tear up when I saw how amazing they were and what an Impact they made on the children, but there were also some who clearly done it purely for the money.

I also grew up with a girl who has recently received a significant amount of compensation for the abuse she suffered in two of her foster care placements.

Again to be clear there are great foster carers also but I can’t assume they’re all selfish lovely humans who put the children’s needs first.

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:42

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 08:56

Absolute bollocks. It isn’t about your kids, or how hot or cold they are- it’s about this child and hot or cold HE is.

HE is too hot and uncomfortable- the nursery staff who have known him longer than the FC can see this- they remove the tights, his family who know him better than anyone can see this, and they remove them. The SW can see this and has told the FC to stop, as have the family.

The FC is there to take care of the child while the mum gets over cancer- this is a devastating situation for the child (who already has SEND to deal with), and the family.

The FC should be 100% prioritising the safety and comfort of the child, and should be being guided on all issues by the mother (who still has PR in all matters), and the SW who is aware of the child’s SEND- that is her job.

The SW might have views on gendered clothing that you don’t agree with (neither do I), and presumably the FC doesn’t either- but that is totally irrelevant.

If the FC isn’t capable of discerning the child’s needs herself by observing him being hot/red in the face/irritable, and isn’t willing to listen to his mother (who’s only crime is to be ill with cancer and not have a family member who has the capacity to take in a disabled 4 year old indefinitely), the nursery professionals or the SW- what the fuck else isnt she able to see?!

Just try and imagine being a single mum with a disabled 4 year old, finding out you have cancer and the treatment you need to try and stay alive is going to make you so so ill that the only option is for someone else, that you don’t know, to step in and take care of your child.

You are deathly ill, and you have to make the selfless decision to allow your disabled 4 year old, whom you know will be devastated and frightened, and who doesn’t even have the language to express that, to go and live with a stranger.

You have to trust that that stranger will take care of your child, be kind to them and meet their already complex needs at a time when they are incredibly emotionally and physically vulnerable- you trust them to do that while knowing that they don’t love your child like you do.

And then that FC ignores a simple request, from 3 different sources- she has the arrogance to think she knows your child, whom you have brought up for 4 years and whose every need is as clear as day to you, better than you.

And you think you wouldn’t be bothered and @TotoroElla and the child’s mother should ‘grow up’?!

You wouldn’t think, if she can’t see he is too hot and she doesn’t care how I, as his mother, want him to be cared for- then what else is she doing? Is she feeding him properly? Does she know when he is full or hungry? Can she tell when his nappy needs to be changed? Does she notice when he is frightened and misses his mummy, and does she reassure him?

You would be a grown up would you, and turn off all your care and worry for your child?

Thank you for how you have expressed that! That is spot on. I don't believe any decent parent would not worry about their DC in these circumstances!

OP posts:
Isitautumnyet23 · 24/02/2024 10:41

Sorry but I think its bizarre to put boys in tights (never seen a boy in tights at my childrens pre-schools). Pre-school always ask for clothes to be as practical as possible so ideally girls wouldn’t be in tights either. Practical clothes, they can take off quickly when running to the loo. So just jogging bottoms is ideal for boys or girls.

Its also not cold at all at the moment, kids are coming out of school in tshirts this week! Not exactly extreme cold weather.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/02/2024 10:40

The poster, and all the other similar posters, obviously can read as they can write. Just too lazy and self-important to do so!

True. I willingly stand corrected.

CecilyP · 24/02/2024 10:38

YetAnotherSpartacus · 24/02/2024 10:10

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

Another judgemental twatty post made by a poster with limited reading ability.

The mother has cancer.

The poster, and all the other similar posters, obviously can read as they can write. Just too lazy and self-important to do so!

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:37

Stravaig · 24/02/2024 08:54

Given the wee boy is in foster care I'd say you all have more serious things to worry about than policing gender normative clothing. FFS.

Well, yes cancer is serious but even so most mums put their DC above themselves and care about them being comfortable and happy even with other serious things going on.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:33

SKG231 · 24/02/2024 08:49

You say your sister is unwell and receiving treatment and that’s the reason why your nephew is in foster care. If you’re that bothered about the level of care he’s receiving why aren’t you or another family member stepping up and looking after him?

don’t go after a selfless person who fosters other peoples children because of an item of clothing she puts them in.

I've already explained that. There is no other family member. I have 2 SEN DC and no space for the little boy. I would have him if I could. But I figure I'm best placed to support like this rather than having a breakdown then all 3 would be in FC. I know people keep saying sister, but she's not my sister not that it matters, if I could have him I would 😢

And not only does he have to live with a stranger, his mum can't even ensure he is comfortable or happy because of how 'selfless' the FC is 😢

OP posts:
TotalAbsenceOfImperialRaiment · 24/02/2024 10:33

And some people wonder why there is a shortage of foster carers.

CecilyP · 24/02/2024 10:31

lovelysoap · 24/02/2024 10:08

I think mum is focusing on the tights issue to avoid the real issue. Children are only taken into foster care as a very last resort. There is a huge lack of foster care spaces and they only go to the children most at risk of immediate serious harm and when there are no other suitable family members who are even able to care for the child on a temporary basis. Things generally need to be rock bottom for a child to be in foster care and not even dad or any of dads extended family or friends can care for the child. Parental responsibility now lies with the local authority as Mum and dad and no friends or relatives can keep this child safe.

i think that it is understandable that the family will focus on a small issue about the foster carer which is easier than facing up tot he very difficult reality that they cant keep a child safe despite social workers trying to work with them to keep the child safe for a long time.

The focus needs to be the needs of the child and getting home into a proper place where he can be safe and his needs can be attended to not some red herring like tights.

My advice would be to face up to and try and engage and work with the FC and SW on the real issues that prevent this child living and thriving with his birth family.

In the time it took you to compose this long irrelevant post, you could have read all OPs posts explaining why the DC is in foster care.

determinedtomakethiswork · 24/02/2024 10:30

Ruffpuff · 23/02/2024 23:03

Probably the idea is to keep him warm in winter. How do they know he’s getting hot?

He's 4. Maybe he's telling them.

snoopyfanaccountant · 24/02/2024 10:29

OP, just another thought; has the nursery said anything to the FC about the tights? They are obviously dealing with this on a day to day basis and seeing his discomfort. You say that they remove the tights but put them back on for him to go home. Could his DM not ask that they don't put them back on and tell the FC that they are having to remove them because he is too hot?

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:27

twogooddogs · 24/02/2024 08:47

Regardless of all the issues as to why the child is in care, the carer should be working with the family and SW and mum either retains or shares PR depending on legal arrangements. If carer is ignoring a seemingly reasonable request there are options to resolve this: the carer will have her own SW, child’s SW can involve her if she hasn’t already done so. Or, child will have an IRO (independent reviewing officer), mum can approach IRO and ask them to intervene- there will be an informal and formal dispute process to address such issues and/or discuss at child’s review. Or there will be a complaints process that can be used. Obviously better to try and resolve without a formal complaint if possible but can be escalated as required. Note: obv I don t know all circumstances but this is professional advice I would offer to any parent with a child in care.

We'd rather just resolve it amicably but thank you for the advice if this continues. I'm just wondering if the FC's SW would be best placed to resolve this issue with her.

OP posts:
TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:25

Rosestulips · 24/02/2024 08:46

Another person who is projecting their own views and judgements rather than reading the OPs concerns.

it’s because he’s too hot!

I know some people really are projecting!

OP posts:
Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:24

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:17

Exactly!

WTF is wrong with people?!

Utter compassion and empathy bypass, as well as a metric fuck ton of ignorance and lack of common sense.

You've summed up well what is wrong with them - lack of compassion and common sense. I hope none of these people are foster carers themselves.

This thread is actually quite upsetting tbh 😣

TotoroElla · 24/02/2024 10:23

theduchessofspork · 24/02/2024 08:43

If she puts him in them then It’ll be because it’s colder at her house/nursery than at his mother’s house.

So take them off when he’s visiting home.

It will make no difference to him or the other kids at nursery. It’s nonsense to say it’s undignified. Foster carers do need to be able to get on with the job, and they need some autonomy to do that. Many look after several kids at a once and need to be able to get them dressed and out quickly.

The most useful thing you could do is discourage the mother from making a big deal of this

Maybe it is cold at her house but not at nursery. I think if he's going to nursery or his mother's house he should be dressed appropriately for those environments. I dread to think how cold her house must be, though if he needs a double layer. I live in a drafty Victorian house and it's not cold in this mild weather.

I don't think mum is making a 'big deal' out of it. Just asked SW to stop putting him in tights as he gets too hot.

OP posts:
wast542 · 24/02/2024 10:20

To be honest I would not like this either. 4 year olds do notice things like this and my boy when he was 4 would have totally objected to this

Sassi81 · 24/02/2024 10:19

@TotoroElla - I felt compelled to join Mumsnet today purely to say I’ve never seen such a vile lot of posters in my life!

I hope you and his mother continue to advocate for your nephew who obviously cannot speak up for himself at aged 4, let alone with SEN.

I myself would not be worried about putting a boy in tights for warmth but the simple fact is that he is clearly overheating and his comfort is being ignored, as are his mother’s wishes.

There are too many posters on here who appear all too hasty to leave nasty and judgemental comments without bothering to read the context fully.

Dont stop raising it with his Foster Carer - she clearly cares but regardless, his mother deserves an explanation.

All the best.

Theresstilltonighttocome · 24/02/2024 10:17

Saltandpeppero · 24/02/2024 10:15

Parents who have their kids taken into care for any reason will often feel very powerless and as if they’re already failing their children even if it’s beyond their control like in the case of the OPs relative who sadly has cancers.

Unnecessary actions like this which is causing discomfort for their child can be especially upsetting for the bio parents as they already feel a bit helpless.

It’s a very delicate time for the children too and whereby another kid might not remember incidents like this, for a child in care the stress of the “hot tights” they kept being made to wear may form a big part of their early years memory.

I’m speaking as a former social services professional ( educator for children in care working alongside SWs) and as a care experienced adult who spent a year in privately arranged kinship care as a 4 year old.

Exactly!

WTF is wrong with people?!

Utter compassion and empathy bypass, as well as a metric fuck ton of ignorance and lack of common sense.