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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to change therapist over this?

88 replies

Craybourne · 22/02/2024 19:19

This is more of a ‘WIBU’!

Been going to therapist for maybe around 6 weeks. She’s quite good – she’s got to the point, she’s very astute, and I’ve been finding the sessions useful. All good.

A couple of things are niggling me though.

The first is that I’ve started to notice is that when we part ways at the door, we’ll say a friendly goodbye, but then when I’ve sort of glanced back after as she’s shutting the door, I’ve seen that her face has immediately dropped into a look of dislike and disgust. (Like a bit bored and eye-rolly) (This is nothing at all related to what I’m going to the sessions for – it’s not about paranoia or anything like that!)

Other possible explanations – it could just be she’s tired, maybe her face is like that, maybe it’s just a job and she cba with clients nowadays, I don’t know. But it’s just a bit jarring and has made me feel like she may not like me all that much. Which isn’t the law obvs, but does make me feel less comfortable in sessions.

The other (likewise pretty small) thing, is in messages, she seems to do that passive aggressive thing of switching to ‘regards’ rather than ‘kind regards’ if the message is less favourable. Again, could just be coincidence, but it’s such an openly acknowledged thing now (how many memes have you seen about it), and only ever seems to be the sign off if it relates to something that might inconvenience her.

So, two pretty minor things on the face of it! But making me feel a bit uneasy about her. If it was the Dr’s receptionist – who cares. But for this sort of thing feels a bit more important. Am I being unreasonable in thinking twice about going back? Would be an easy decision except for the fact that I’ve otherwise found the sessions useful and would rather avoid starting from scratch with someone else ideally.

AIBU?!

OP posts:
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Blanketyre · 05/10/2024 16:18

I once had a client - for the first few sessions I used to walk a few steps out of the room and say 'do you know the way out?' (Twisty therapy room corridors)

On about week 5 I didn't do it as I assumed he knew the way out. At the following weeks session he shared how sad it made him feel that I hadn't checked that he knew the way. After that we had a little joke that I'd always walk a few steps down the corridor with him!

Blanketyre · 05/10/2024 16:15

I am a therapist in training and I am very formal and simple when it comes to messages. What I AM is consistent. But I don't want the work to spill out into texts and emails.

Frankensteinian · 05/10/2024 16:11

How did this play out @Craybourne ? Did you stick with her? Or were your instincts correct? I wonder might she have been experiencing physical pain, like back pain for instance, and hence the grimace?

Original poster
Craybourne · 23/02/2024 18:23

MummaMummaJumma · 22/02/2024 21:58

Oh that’s awful and completely unethical for your ex-therapist to be so direct with that type of advice giving. I hope he clearly stated your right to complain about him with his governing body. Hope you’re okay and please don’t let that stop you from receiving support in the future. There are good ones out there!

OP, as a therapist, I can completely appreciate your counsellor may be a little fatigued, it can be tiring holding the therapeutic space for 50 minutes and all that fills in up. However, from the moment you enter, to the moment you leave, that is your space. Whatever happens in that time is relevant to the therapy, including hello’s and goodbyes. If it helps, I actually feel extremely touched when my clients can bring in an issue/question about our relationship, especially if their reason for seeking therapy is some sort of relational trauma. It gives an opportunity for repair and dialogue, this can be extremely healing. I imagine if you both work well together and you don’t sense this during sessions, she possibly doesn’t fully realise she’s doing it.

Good luck xx

Show quote history

Thank you!

OP posts:
wutheringkites · 23/02/2024 18:04

magentacloud · 22/02/2024 22:05

Honestly, anyone would think that there aren't just some really shit therapists about. Some of them seem to get their qualifications from a box of cornflakes and/or a weekend course. Others are just temperamentally unsuited to the field and lack compassion, common sense, and basic human kindness. Others are warped and deeply punishing.

Going to see someone who may or may not be an objectively good therapist - whose job it is after all to tease out your perceptions - and then ignoring your own perceptions and uncomfortable feelings about something you clearly perceived is a very special kind of mindfuck that women should not be encouraged to perservere with and pay for!

I agree with this although I do think it's worth telling her what you observed and see what she says before deciding to go to someone else.

Original poster
Craybourne · 23/02/2024 14:32

laclochette · 22/02/2024 20:41

@Craybourne Ah deffo not a strictly psychodynamic therapist then, as you said anyway. They work to strict routines ie you come at the same time every week, at least once a week. I have to pay even if I can't make it, which always annoys me 🤣 but the process etc etc etc...

Yeah I think that’d annoy the best of us 😆 I can see how the commitment might keep someone on track (don’t know if that’s the intention) and can see the benefit in having a clear structure. But I’m very much from the consumer rights / respect a paying customer school of thought and worship at the altars of Which and Martin Lewis. I couldn’t see myself ever getting into an arrangement like this

OP posts:
Balloonhearts · 23/02/2024 14:20

Some conversations will never be comfortable. But you should feel safe, physically and emotionally. If you don't then I'd stop throwing good money after bad and change therapist.

whatthefrippery · 23/02/2024 13:28

No, not really. Was a very low point and it took my energy up going there every week and getting so upset alongside the general therapy feelings. I'd had therapy before but she had retired so went on a recommendation from someone who works in the industry and is a friend - so very hard to do much about as it feels a bit close. Was about 2yrs or more ago now so I've had time to process it. I do think I need more therapy (last year was what you might call eventful) but I don't have the energy for it atm.

Original poster
Craybourne · 23/02/2024 13:27

SomeCatFromJapan · 23/02/2024 13:07

You're the one paying her - you can stop or find a different therapist for any reason you wish.

Absolutely! Just would rather stick with one person if at all possible, and at 5/6 sessions in have covered a fair bit of ‘background’ – kind of an upfront cost (time, money) at the beginning of any course of sessions with someone new.

On the other hand, maybe that’s a bit of a sunk-cost fallacy! It’s quite an investment of time and money so would ideally like to be pursuing it with a therapist I feel at ease with.

Funnily enough, there was a recent thread where someone said her therapist had become her friend, and lots of people weighed in saying that under other circumstances they could have imagined being friends with their therapist. I thought – I don’t think we would necessarily have that kind of rapport, and maybe that’s a good thing (there’s more professional distance, the boundaries are more clear cut). But still, I don’t want to be actively disliked! lol

Sorry Japan, just musing off the back of your reply. Realise I’ve gone off on a tangent here 😆

OP posts:
Original poster
Craybourne · 23/02/2024 13:14

whatthefrippery · 22/02/2024 20:12

I'm struggling with the idea of going back to therapy after a bad experience and keep on imagining having to start from scratch (I want to just talk about here and now rather than go over the last 40 years all over again!). My bad experience however was pretty humiliating and the first and last time I would ever use a male therapist. I had stuck with him despite not feeling it from the start because he manipulated me by saying "Would you have a problem with a male therapist? Are you open to actually listening to a man's view?" in the first session. I actually didn't hear it in a negative way, rather tried to actually question myself and realised perhaps I did have a bias...huge mistake. He said so many things that were over the line about my recent break up (suggesting I didn't initiate sex enough - even then I had to say actually it was always me cringe and then going on to say I needed to "bring out my anger in the bedroom with toys, perhaps" Shock which was when I left). I feel very vulnerable thinking about therapy again after this. What's worse is he aggressively chased me for weeks for the final payment which I had already sent him but he had missed.

That’s awful, so sorry you had that experience :(

Did you feel able to report him? There are definitely some decent therapists out there, although don’t blame you at all for feeling wary of entering back into the fray. You’re placing a lot of trust in someone. Sounds like your instincts were very spot on though.

OP posts:
SomeCatFromJapan · 23/02/2024 13:07

You're the one paying her - you can stop or find a different therapist for any reason you wish.

Original poster
Craybourne · 23/02/2024 13:02

Few points for clarification

  • The face: definitely not imagining it! Maybe about 4 sessions in I happened to glance back as I was walking off and was surprised to see her smile had dropped into a grimace the moment I’d turned away. Not just a ‘relaxed’ face, but a lip curled on one side, eye roll-y sort of look. I thought – well, maybe just tired or RBF or whatever. Maybe she’s burnt out from listening to people talk about themselves for years. Who knows. I did have a think if there’s anything I might have done or said that came across as rude (for example), but really couldn’t think of any reason that would explain it as being personal to me. (Although obvs it’s perfectly possible to just not warm to someone for reasons that are not really anything to do with them – and I don’t feel she’s required to ‘like’ me, although I do think a good rapport is helpful.) Next session I paid a bit more attention (allowing for the possibility I’d just imagined it, as you do). This time noticed exactly same thing again – as I say, definitely not imagining it! Whatever the reason, it’s disconcerting, but open to different explanations for ‘the face’ that might not have occurred to me. Lots of posters have provided some interesting perspectives I hadn’t considered.
  • This is not something that I regularly notice in others or have a particular general worry about
  • Have seen other counsellors in the past and had positive experiences
  • I’m not attending counselling for anything to do with confidence, self-esteem, lack of assertiveness, anxiety, etc. Have found some of the assumptions interesting, and also interesting that as it’s a therapy setting, lots of posters are projecting all sorts of frailties and insecurities! I think the perception of therapy expressed in some of the posts is interesting too, particularly the deficit / ‘broken machine needs fixing’ model. Interesting further that a lot of the posters are therapists or clients themselves (I think typical for any thread with ‘therapist’ in the title.) But anyway, that’s a whole other conversation!
  • KR / R – I worked in offices for years going back to the 90s and this is kind of a thing – some people do switch to regards if they’re irritated! I didn’t learn about it from memes (:D) – think it’s more one of those relatable things that has become a meme.
  • I don’t think every time someone uses ‘regards’ it means they’re expressing annoyance.
  • I don’t think every time someone switches from KR to R it expresses annoyance.
  • I do think in a context where someone might be expected to be a bit put out, plus they suddenly start using regards where their standard sign off is KR, it could gently suggest they’re a bit irritated. In my own professional communication, I would be aware of this potential (mis)interpretation, and so would avoid doing this unless I really was annoyed and didn’t mind them knowing! Of course, some people may be completely oblivious to how a lot of people might perceive this.
  • I’m going into careful detail here as I’m taking the time to respond to some of the various queries on the thread! I am not writing a phd about KR / R or RBF ☺️
OP posts:
DifferentAlgebra · 23/02/2024 08:01

Craybourne · 23/02/2024 07:30

Not particularly, just general exchange of information about times & days and a couple of ‘mix ups’ which needed to be cleared up

Show quote history

My therapist, who is excellent, is extremely formal in text message communication, and you could certainly read disapproval into her communications if you were insecure.

Original poster
Craybourne · 23/02/2024 07:30

Lucy377 · 22/02/2024 23:02

I figure the Regards vs KR is if the person is in a hurry or the text message is already long.

BTW has there been a lot of appointment time changes? Even in the six weeks? Or why the texting...🤔

Not particularly, just general exchange of information about times & days and a couple of ‘mix ups’ which needed to be cleared up

OP posts:
MCOut · 23/02/2024 01:15

She has resting bitch face and may have never worked in an office setting to know this is a thing. You’re overthinking, I think.

Lazypeopledrivemecrazy · 23/02/2024 01:12

It sounds to me like you're totally over reacting OP. I don't want to be unkind or anything, but presumably if you're in counselling, you're may not be feeling very confident, and are seeing something that isn't there. Why would you expect someone to still be smiling when you've already turned your back on them? My DH will often say to me, 'why do you look so miserable', when I'm not aware that he's been looking at me, and it's just my resting face, or perhaps I'm thinking about something, I couldn't possibly smile 24/7 just on the off chance that he's going to look up at me.

As for the sign off, 'kind regards' is usually used when you don't know someone very well, but once you feel more confident, it's not really necessary, and as someone else suggested, it's just a speedy way of signing off, a bit like you could sign off a letter to family, with 'lots of love' or just 'love', they both mean the same thing, but love is just quicker.

Lighteningstrikes · 23/02/2024 00:59

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all to feel a bit unnerved by her negative face change. You know what you witnessed. It’s unprofessional and someone in her position should have control over it.

I also wouldn’t like the KR changing to just R, because she’s been inconvenienced. Again, it’s unprofessional imo.

Personally, I would find another therapist because I wouldn’t feel comfortable with her, particularly after the first issue.

Kattenburg · 23/02/2024 00:22

magentacloud · 22/02/2024 22:05

Honestly, anyone would think that there aren't just some really shit therapists about. Some of them seem to get their qualifications from a box of cornflakes and/or a weekend course. Others are just temperamentally unsuited to the field and lack compassion, common sense, and basic human kindness. Others are warped and deeply punishing.

Going to see someone who may or may not be an objectively good therapist - whose job it is after all to tease out your perceptions - and then ignoring your own perceptions and uncomfortable feelings about something you clearly perceived is a very special kind of mindfuck that women should not be encouraged to perservere with and pay for!

This makes sense.

neonjumper · 23/02/2024 00:14

Sounds like you are sabotaging the relationship. These are things you need to bring to your session . You are saying there is something going on between the transaction between the pair of you at the end of your sessions .
You also need to explore the narrative you are creating about the 'endings' of emails .
Endings seem to be a recurring theme for you ... there is a huge amount to explore in therapy around endings .

Or you could just run away ... rather than face what endings mean for you !!!

lto2019 · 22/02/2024 23:52

It might be that as you're leaving - she switches to off mode. I know when I get off the phone to a client or in person I kind of shift modes. I;m also an eye roller! but sometimes it is more a wow and processing things. I think there are two kind of people using kind regards - those who have used it way before memes and continue to do so and those who using it deliberately - which do you think she is?
At the end of the day though you need to feel you can build a professional relationship with someone and if you don't think you can with her then that is ok - there are other people you can work with.

timeooooout · 22/02/2024 23:11

Lucy377 · 22/02/2024 23:02

I figure the Regards vs KR is if the person is in a hurry or the text message is already long.

BTW has there been a lot of appointment time changes? Even in the six weeks? Or why the texting...🤔

Indeed. And why is some of it 'less favourable' whatever that means...

timeooooout · 22/02/2024 23:10

@westisbest1982 an attachment style is not a diagnosis.

Noticing someone's anxious behaviour in relation to another8 is not a diagnosis. It's what is known as an observation.

I hope that helps you in your understanding the thread.

Lucy377 · 22/02/2024 23:02

I figure the Regards vs KR is if the person is in a hurry or the text message is already long.

BTW has there been a lot of appointment time changes? Even in the six weeks? Or why the texting...🤔

Minimili · 22/02/2024 22:46

I have been seeing therapists for years and when I was in my late twenties I started seeing a woman weekly.

I have a mental illness and had a bit of a wild misspent youth and had a history of being in unsuitable relationships, I don’t want to say anything too outing but it was obvious that my therapist had a completely different more conventional experience growing up and she disagreed with some of my decisions and actions.

At first I thought I was paranoid because I noticed she was pulling a face like she was disgusted when I talked about something that I’d done that I was ashamed of, I ignored it but struggled to be as open as I wanted to be in sessions. I carried on going then in one session I was talking about a traumatic experience I’d had years ago and I was looking down at my lap, I glanced up and caught her visibly shaking her head like she was appalled.

I wanted to raise it but I didn’t feel comfortable enough to do it, instead I sent her an email afterwards saying I felt judged and wouldn’t be attending any more sessions. She replied saying if that’s how I felt it was for the best and the next therapist I had was much better and we made a lot of progress.

You might have the wrong idea but at the same time if you had a really good relationship and trusted her then I suspect you wouldn’t doubt her feelings towards you so much and would probably assume that’s just her natural facial expression or she had another reason.
I have found the regards vs kind regards thing can be obvious if someone is using it passive aggressively. I deal with someone regularly who signs kind regards most of the time but every time something isn’t to their liking they just put “regards”
Not everyone is aware of this though and it might just be that you are reading too much into it, my friend changes from regards to kind regards, adds kisses etc… I mentioned it once and she said she deals with people from all walks of life daily and sometimes signs off emails without thinking, she once signed an email off to her boss saying “lots of love xxxx” which luckily they had a good laugh about.

If you aren’t comfortable bringing it up in a session you could mention it in an email? I wouldn’t mention the way she signs off her emails but I think you need to bring up her facial expressions like others have advised. You need to trust your therapist and not be questioning if she’s secretly judging you or not.

Being able to discuss worries like this is a good skill to have and it might benefit you in the future. I often wish I could ask people straight out if I’ve done something to annoy or upset them rather then worrying about it. I am quite paranoid over things like that and it usually builds up instead of being easily resolved.

I hope you get it sorted!

Tillycx · 22/02/2024 22:37

I didn’t even know that kind regards/regards was meant to be a slight until I read it somewhere, I honestly thought I was being respectful and friendly when I wrote either.
As for the change in facial expression, I suppose you do try and put on a positive face with customers/clients/patients and you want to do your best for them but it is exhausting. It would bother me if feeling a negative vibe from sometime though so can understand the dilemma if it leave you feeling that vibe

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