AIBU to wonder if sleep training negatively impacts a child (attachment theory)?

When you have young children VERY close in age and no other help available to appease the other kids crying, you have no choice BUT to "sleep train" ie leave one to cry whilst you dash to the other to rock them for a while etc, then dash to another etc. One is inevitably left to cry. Mine are all fine shrug.

I wonder about this too. Of course there have always been parents that just don't bother and let their kids do whatever, but I see a lot of families now just let their kids play or watch tv till they fall asleep in a heap or on the couch. At 10 or 11, waking up with the sunlight. These are sort of average families who would have had kids on a routine 30 years ago, sleeping 10 hours a night.

It has to affect the kids, I really wonder if it's implicated in the attention disorders that seem so prevalent now.

I’m also in the camp that not having a proper sleep routine negatively impacts a child far more than a short period of time following a plan to encourage decent quality sleep. Sleep training isn’t leave baby to cry for hours with no one coming.

Pretty much same here

This. Mine was so much better after I sleep trained at 8 months. Started sleeping about 5 more hours a day? Given sleep is so important for development I'm glad I did it. Sleep needs the whole routine, so also naps at the right time to enable proper sleep at night. Part of it is also gauging the cries, so if it's more grizzling or actual distress (in which case you wouldn't leave them to cry). I used a version of the Ferber method and only left my baby to cry for 3 min maximum. I'm a huge advocate for it. I also don't think it's helpful to co-sleep as this seems to create a dependency but each to their own

I had PND/PNA and part of this was because my son didn’t sleep and wouldn’t nap unless he was on me. It was hell on toast for about 2 years.
In this state I had also got it into my head that any type of training would ruin his attachment and that I would be guilty of neglecting him.
but then after his second birthday we really couldn’t take it any more. We were all broken people. I described myself as a “dried up husk”. I used to shout at him a lot, he was increasingly not a happy child.

we trained using the batelle method.
my only regret was not doing it earlier, at 6 months or so.
it wasn’t cruel at all. The method is attachement theory focused and teaches adult and parent new methods of attachment to wean the child on to a different method of attachement for sleep and to help them understand that their parent will always come for them when they need them. It also teaches parent to understand the difference between need and want. It was hard work for 7 nights and then it was done.
can’t recommend it enough!

Aren’t all loved and well looked after babies left to cry sometimes? Because you’re in the loo, they’re crying in the car seat but you’re driving the car, a sibling needs something more urgently etc. I don’t know what it is about helping everyone get a decent night’s sleep that gets people so riled up. My first did so much crying in the car, a hell of a lot more than you’d get from 3 nights of Ferber but maybe I should have refrained from ever leaving the house IDK.

Seeing as you have a degree. Why not look at some academic journals? It’s such a divisive topic here, will you get only get very extreme views. I personally thinking babies and children need to learn to sleep well, for their own benefit, however you get there.

@Naptrappedmummy

Sometimes I wonder if some of the increase in behavioural issues noted by teachers is due to chronic and severe lack of sleep. This ‘child lead, waking 8 times a night until 11 is biologically normal’ approach may be behind this.

I think there may be some truth in this. I would never leave a baby to cry but do believe they need to learn to settle themselves. It might be the reason that currently teens can't cope with life as well as those 20+ yrs. I've noticed a massive surge in mental health issues & poor behaviour since I started teaching over 20 years ago.

My toddler cried more today without me being able to comfort them, than they ever did during sleep training. They cried all the way back from the supermarket (about 8 minutes) because I’d not put a certain toy in the car before we went to the supermarket. They also cried for shorter periods and I couldn’t immediately console them when they bit their finger and I was in the bathroom but they refused to come to the bathroom. Or when I had to sort out their dinner and they wouldn’t climb their stool to help me and so they lay on the kitchen floor sobbing.

Now maybe all these short bursts of time when I can’t or haven’t consoled them might cause attachment issues. Even though the rest of the day they had a cuddle when they wanted, we played, we sang, I changed the words of their favourite nursery to their name, we’ve read books. I have done everything else within my power today to make sure they are feeling loved and well looked after. If those little bits are going to cause attachment issues then there isn’t anything I can do about that, I can’t stop the car and soothe them every time they cry.

I did sleep training with some of my kids and not others. Mainly due to changes in thinking and experience, and my circumstances.

I don't think it negatively impacts attachment, tbh. I've actually become rather suspicious of some of the elements of popular attachment theory. If it was really that easy to interrupt parental attachment, I don't think we'd have had much luck as a species.

One of the things that really changed my mind on this was after trying it in desperation, and realizing that my child had basically been desperate for sleep and sleep deprived, and after sleep training there was overall far less crying, and just better mood generally. It's actually not great for a baby to need to be in contact with mum every time he or she comes to the top of a sleep cycle, it results in interrupted sleep.

I would suggest, OP, as far as timing - I think 8 months might be too late, though it's often recommended. But my observation is that it is way harder by then. Twelve weeks is too early, but I'd be looking to gently push towards a routine now, and sleep training can probably start close to the six month mark if you decide it's necessary.

I think whether it affects the child depends a lot on personality. I have two DS - one is 5 and still wakes up nightly and needs cuddles. The other is 1, happy to fall asleep independently and mostly sleeps through the night. Both had their bedtime exactly the same. If I tried to sleep train DS5 I believe this would be damaging to him and would cause a lot of attachment issues. If I sleep trained DS1 he probably wouldn't kick up much fuss and would just go to sleep by himself happily after the first night.

You don't sleep train a baby with colic. You get their symptoms treated and the cause established (mine was due to dairy intolerance).

In our experience, sleep training was 4-5 nights. And really it was only 3 where we really weren't responding to every cry - 4 and 5 were very quick settles.

I think the attachment / neglect / babies of addicts is months and months of ignoring cries repeatedly - day and night - so isn't comparable.

My DD has CMPA and terrible colic and reflux.

I think this bit is very crucial op. I had 2 babies with this and it is very specific set of circumstances. These babies have a need to be held to ease their absolute discomfort and pain. They therefore do not know how to self soothe, actually develop strong separation anxiety and in fact tend to be more dependent. With my first we didn't make this connection and it was utter hell. Sleep, naps was just torture. It put me off ever wanting to have another child. Then he only settled around 4. With my second , again we went through hell and at 9m we sleep trained. It took us 3 nights and she is so different to my older one who had the exact same issues as her. This is just my experience and from speaking to lots and lots of people who had babies like mine. I also found that when my dd went through bouts of teething and Illness her sleep habits did not drastically change.

Nah. I firmly believe that what happens during the day with your baby is way more important than at night. If you have a safe strong attachment with your child during their waking hours, they will grow up with a secure attachment style even if they cried at night when they were exhausted and needed to sleep.

I used CC with my first son when he was 10 months old (for various reasons) and it worked within a week.

He’s 10 now and still loves me and is a very happy child.

I agree with this. We didn't sleep train DD2, but she got left to cry for a short while sometimes. If I was giving toddler DD1 a bath and DD2 started crying, obviously she literally could not be left, whereas I knew DD2 was safe so she had to wait. Not ages obviously, but DD1 got a lot more attention and a lot more quickly!

Sometimes I wonder if some of the increase in behavioural issues noted by teachers is due to chronic and severe lack of sleep. This ‘child lead, waking 8 times a night until 11 is biologically normal’ approach may be behind this.

I do wonder. My DS is adopted, he was 4 when placed with us and I was told by his foster carers that he didn’t need much sleep - was up til 10.30/11.00 at night, up from 6.00am, couldn’t sleep alone. One of the first things we did was establish a night time routine, within the week he was sleeping from 7.00pm til 7.00am - he had been chronically over tired, they used screen time to give themselves some down time and he was very over stimulated. I do think children need as good a sleep routine as possible from a young age.

The amount of “being left to cry” during my daughter’s sleep training was far less than the amount of “being left to cry” experienced by my friends twins or second born children just by dint of there being more than one of them, so unless attachment theory says that all children who have siblings have trauma, it seems unlikely.

Hi OP,

I have twins - a great example in how you can’t jump at every cry. So often especially as babies both cried, and I had to leave one to tend to the other first. As so many have said, huge difference in not jumping at every noise compared to neglect like the example in your OP.
I did sleep train my twins as I was at my wits end with two babies - I did something called Gradual Retreat, it fit with my comfort level in doing it and also worked very well for us.

Speak for yourself. I have more issues than you can throw a DSM 5 at.

Would you like to enlighten us all on that ‘science’? Maybe post a link?