HR departments see employees as the enemy

Public sector ER specialist here. You've pretty much summed up my entire role.

It's bloody depressing to see yet another HR slamming thread. I bend over backwards to ensure people are treated fairly and compassionately, as does the rest of my team.

Yet when we're not listened too and it all goes wrong the manager will always fall back on "I'm only doing what HR told me to do." Except that isn't true and the manager just doesn't want to take responsibility for their decisions.

It's literally the HR team's job to protect the interests of the business and to try to prevent the company from being sued. Employees come and go, they're not paid to be on the employee's side. You have to be a certain type of person to work in HR.

JennyLake · Today 18:15

My problem with HR is that they seem determined to do everything in their power to absolve themselves of any responsibility for HR matters and then expect line managers to do all the traditional HR activities using a self-service guidance tool that doesn’t work. And when you point out it doesn’t work, they shrug and ask if you have logged it as an issue with the helpdesk which is very well hidden in the depths of the corporate intranet. 9 times out of 10 they 3 weeks to investigate (against their 48 hour SLA) then come back to say they don’t know how to resolve it and can you raise another ticket if you still need an answer….thus ensuring as a line manager I spend most of my working day tied up in HR matters rather than delivery of my actual role. So yeah…I don’t love HR but I have never thought for a second that they are on the side of the worker!

You're another one that thinks HR should be doing your job as a manager!! Get people like you every day. HR are there to support and advise you to do your own bloody job!! Are you responsible for managing your staff, or do you think HR should be doing that!?

I'm another who has worked in various organisations, public and private sector, and I also had a year long secondment to HR earlier in my career. Sadly, I do think you're absolutely right.

In my experience HR in the public sector are especially bad, in the main because the pay is so much lower and departments are so overstretched.

I have witnessed absolutely scandalous practices including deliberate 'mistakes' with dates, timescales, documents, addresses, all designed to make sure time runs out and staff are so worn down that they just give up.

Senior staff/directors turn a blind eye to it all because employment law is such a minefield that they haven't the confidence to challenge what goes on.

I agree that everyone should join a union. Good union reps are not scared to hold organisations and HR to account.

CryptoFascist · Today 15:09

Justifiedcheese · Today 12:57

My experience is the opposite. No support whatever to a manager ( not me) trying to get rid of a really, really poor performer - we are talking years of dreadful standards).
Same here, HR forcing us managers to prop up really poorly performing employees. It seems close to impossible to actually dismiss anyone or even get as far as disciplinary action.

Your competence is in question here. HR is probably covering your arse and keeping it out of an IT!

My husband pushed back against poor working conditions and attempts to bring in what amounted to zero hours by stealth. HR or what I assume you refer to as ER responded with disciplinary procedures which were eventually abandoned because of their obviously groundless basis. However it was incredibly stressful at the time and shortly afterwards he had a serious of heart attacks from which he will never fully recover. He has always been, incredibly hardworking and productive and is not stupid, as your last comment would seem to imply.

Whatyoutalkingabouteh · Today 15:22

It’s actually simple if you do it properly. There are processes and evidence needed and in my experience anges do not keep records of conversations and poor performance therefore making it a huge risk for an employment tribunal. Do it properly and fairly and you can dismiss within a reasonable timeframe

Of course it is! It's crap managers who don't tackle issues early, and don't keep proper records so have no grounds to take action and then expect HR to work miracles when they finally come to us too late in the day to performance manage and potentially dismiss them before they have permanent rights!

I work in HR. Much of my colleagues' time is spent mopping up after incompetent managers who do not understand our policies, ignore advice, misinform their staff and then blame us when it falls apart.

Herdinggoats · Today 14:42

People think HR are there to look after staff. Bollocks. Never forget who pays their wages. They are there to keep the drones in line

So someone else pays your wages?!

I work in HR, in a specialist area that is all about supporting employees to reach their goals. Some of this thread is absolute codswallap and has left me feeling really sad, after a fairly rubbish day anyway.

I go to work every day to make it a better place for everyone who works there. The role of HR is to enable the business to achieve its strategic goals. People are the most valuable asset a business has to do that.

Sometimes people aren’t in the right role, in the right organisation, and at that point it might be the role of HR to ensure that the business has someone better in that role.

Absolutely this. Somone once told me this in an early supermarket job and I've always remembered it.

So yanbu.

There are some serious misconceptions about HR on this thread. I work in HR and my whole role is about creating opportunities for young people at the start of their career. As part of this, I have standardised hours, increased their salary scale, trained their mentors and developed learning plans for them all. They are well paid, trained and supported.

Long term this does benefit the organisation as we get to fill the skills gaps in our ageing workforce, but it also benefits employees by creating great career opportunities.

There are a wide range of roles in HR and ER (employee relations) is the part of HR that generally deals with discipline, grievance and sickness.

HR covers learning and development, reward, well-being, early careers, recruitment, organisational development and ER.

I would never work in an ER role within HR because you literally spend your time dealing with people who are causing issues - either through capability, conduct or absence. I have worked in the private and public sector and public sector ER is a nightmare. It’s virtually impossible to get rid of the underperforming staff and those that generally take the piss. Staff in the public sector absolutely know this, so push things to the limit. I could write a book on some of the people that should have been sacked a long time ago, but are still in well paid roles and are getting away with doing little work, poor performance, general bad behaviour, bullying, long term sick - but still managing to do their freelance work. The list is endless.

Great example of the difference between private and public sector ER.

Public sector - I was sexually harassed as a young woman during my time with the civil service. Complained to my Manager, who bottled out of dealing with it and passed it over to HR. Investigation and a disciplinary for the harasser. Outcome, he kept his job and they just shifted him to another office.

Private sector - older bloke got reported to a line manager for sexually harassing a younger female apprentice. I took a statement from her and his manager immediately suspended him and sent him home. Full support put in place for the apprentice, leave with full pay and a phased return to work, with a counsellor on hand, if she wanted to talk. Full and immediate investigation. Discipline case and he was sacked there and then. Done and dusted within 10 days.

Anyway, there are some really clueless remarks about HR and a massive lack of understanding about all the different roles.

Those who find themselves on the wrong side of the ER team do so because of their own actions or stupidity.

Massively agree with this. My very senior boss has had to get involved with my under performing, taking the piss direct report. It has made little difference. HR have been worse than useless and have had the audacity to accuse me of not being professional as it is clear this person needs firing.

But I have kept meticulous records, logs and strict adherence to all policies. When this ends up in a tribunal, which it will, I am not remotely worried about looking 'unprofessional'.

I have worked in public/third sector my whole life and am yet to come across competent, caring, bothered about employees HR people.

What I have consistently come across is a desire to protect 'the business' at all costs. It took me a long time to realise the true purpose of HR. It should be renamed!

Unfortunately for me I had to go through a medical retirement process from a public sector role. The HR people (at all levels) involved in this process were worse than useless, made multiple mistakes but never admitted this, terrible at communication, caused delays and generally so poor that I did ultimately receive a formal apology from my employer for the very poor HR input. It made a stressful situation even worse.

This

Ramphal v Department of Transport

HR was criticised in this case for being too involved because, guess what, when push came to shove in this case the manager said "HR told me to..." rather than taking the responsibility they are paid for. The role of HR should always be advisory.

A good HR leader knows an organisation's most valuable asset is it's people and therefore, mostly, it's in the organisations to advocate for the employee.

Culture eats strategy for breakfast and all that...

Reading this has depressed the crap out of me.

I’ve been in HR for 20 years, and tried bloody hard to make sure that employees are treated fairly, because that is the right thing to do, and I am actually also a human being with feelings and compassion for others.

But I have clearly been wasting my time as apparently the majority of both the employees and managers think we are all incompetent fuckwits.

Can anyone suggest a new career for me? I had considered teaching, but they seem to get just as much of a slating on here.

Are there any jobs where people are actually liked for what they do?

My problem with HR is that they seem determined to do everything in their power to absolve themselves of any responsibility for HR matters and then expect line managers to do all the traditional HR activities using a self-service guidance tool that doesn’t work. And when you point out it doesn’t work, they shrug and ask if you have logged it as an issue with the helpdesk which is very well hidden in the depths of the corporate intranet. 9 times out of 10 they 3 weeks to investigate (against their 48 hour SLA) then come back to say they don’t know how to resolve it and can you raise another ticket if you still need an answer….thus ensuring as a line manager I spend most of my working day tied up in HR matters rather than delivery of my actual role. So yeah…I don’t love HR but I have never thought for a second that they are on the side of the worker!

HRD here with a degree, post grad and a masters not bright is a fairly new insult.... I don't see employees as the enemy. I see difficult employees (you sound like you have the makings of one) as a risk to my organisation.

Most of my time is taken up dealing with wellbeing issues- in the last month I've supported 2 different staff through a mental crisis and disciplinary issues normally arising through someone else's stupidity or criminal activity. People see the impact of HR when someone is unhappy and normally their one sided view but never the other side of the story or work we do because we maintain confidentiality.

The only thing I hate about my job is that despite being well qualified and at the top of my game it's acceptable for very junior staff to be rude about me because 'HR innit?'. You wouldn't get away with speaking about the Finance Director in the same way or any other male dominated professional role but that's another issue

I mean, this is just not true.

Human Resources are not a friend of the employee. There's a clue in the name.

I’m think the problem is they are not accountable to anyone, and they don’t seem to be subject to performance reviews