HR departments see employees as the enemy

Question to those who see HR as 'the enemy,' How do you see your managers? Are they the bad guys too? I'm genuinely trying to understand this world view.

Like I said previously, expert gaslighters.

Proving everyone on here right.

In the next episode of Things That Never Happened...

The term you use to describe HR is beyond offensive FYI.

In a previous job of mine (freelance in a niche field, I get hired by companies if and when needed) the HR were awful, some of the women were on a power trip they’d pull employees up in the middle of the corridor, write them up for having a hair out of place or uniform not done up properly. I mean there’s a right way of doing things, but these creatures would literally talk down to adults like they were children in the most degrading way (whilst their more lenient colleagues at least had the decency to look embarrassed and visibly cringe on their behalf) one particular little hitler who relished in firing people for the slightest mistake (my heart broke for a single mother lil hitler got fired, because she was chewing gum upon entering the premises and hadn’t yet had time to spit it out ) was the worst of the lot, lil hitler made a mistake costing the company hundreds of thousands but kept her job by blackmailing seniors. She had dirt on how employees get treated, and threatened going to the tabloids, so kept her position.
Also some of the female employees were weary about going in the HR office because some of the men would talk amongst themselves about their appearances. (Obviously they knew there was no point in complaining about HR employees, they’d just be gaslit) It was a shit show full of bullshitting hypocrites with more power than they deserved.

....And I work with some amazing HR professionals who I'm proud to know. Why the hell is everyone so fucking rude about HR on MN? There's good and not so good people in every profession.

I've currently on sick leave from work and my manager has been absolutely fantastic... checking in on me and making sure I'm kept abreast of developments, and just making sure I can talk to her about anything, I might be starting out, but I'm proud to be building a career in HR. If others don't feel the same, they can always leave the profession.

YADBU. Yours sincerely, a HR Assistant and a HR student.

All the HR people on here gaslighting to olympics standards when anybody questions them.

Either they don’t care that we’re all witnessing their attitude/behaviour in real time, or are severely lacking in self awareness.

Also a pp claimed a lot are qualified in psychology and law, that would explain a lot about the expert gaslighting skills and narcissism.

I don’t think that’s what she means by not the brightest.

Can work both ways, some employees insisting if they don't get what they want everyone else is to blame, even if what they want is not possible

But some employers may be not legal either

But no I don't blame a whole group

Agree with everyone who says that HR are there to protect the employer and not individual employees. Have generally found them a best ignorable and at worst dangerous (missing visa deadlines for a start, telling the person involved that he was accused of sexual harrassment and who accused him just for a couple). They seem to work in world of their own - we have a redesigned performance review system every other year at least which presumably costs a fortune but does nothing new (and requires training on etc ) -they design family friendly policies in isolation - we have great maternity leave but no maternity cover - they produce salary guidelines with no basis in reality but which look pretty...Lots of time spent on DEI initiatives, charity initiatives and non-work initiative which the rest of us don't have time to
its like a different world of fluffy women which operates totally differently than the rest of the business

Of course we are there to protect the employees. Just like every other worker is there to further the interest of the employer.

BUT protecting the employer usually means things which benefit the employees like making sure policies and procedures are lawful and are applied fairly and consistently, like training managers to manage well and competently, like attracting and retaining talent by ensuring employee engagement, reward, benefits and CPD are strong, by dealing with issues fairly and consistently, by promoting wellbeing and so on and so on.

like any other profession you get some useless people but the same can be said of any other role. And you generally need a masters to get much past advisor level so I’m not sure where these comments about us not being bright come from.

That’s odd Dense, the lawyers I’ve worked with have been mostly intelligent, competent and helpful - I suppose there had to be one that bucks the trend.

Not to their face.

I have never worked in the public sector, but in the private sector, HR are the Company Police. They have no loyalty to the employees and should always be regarded with suspicion.

For those who hold HR in contempt, is this how you address them at work?

Where I’ve worked, HR have tended mostly to be female. I don’t know what that is.

My DM dubs them Human Waste-of-space.

As a previous middle and then senior managing lawyer - Ive found staff in HR to be the thickest and most incompetent bunch ever. Wherever do these companies dig these people up from is beyond me.

I sympathise OP

• HR is an overhead and in some sectors (public, I'm looking at you), they therefore invest very little, so the majority of good HR practitioners go where there is a good company culture and investment/support to do the job properly. See also salaries - the best HR people won't work for pennies so if your company doesn't look after your staff in the first place, you can bet they won't be investing in your HR team and you are probably dealing with inexperienced/less experienced HR people who are willing to work for lesser salaries

• Culture is set from the top of the organisation, if HR are leading on shitty decisions/practises it is almost certainly coming from the leadership/exec team - HR don't just all of sudden decide to make redundancies or cut your employee benefits to piss you off because we think it's a laugh. In certain companies HR have no autonomy and are just there to do the bidding of senior leaders - see point above most good practitioners won't work in such environments, however, HR do have to support and get involved with supporting organisations with difficult and complex scenarios, so naturally we aren't always going to be everyones favourite department

• A lot of managers don't actually want to manage/aren't able to manage (many promoted because they are technically good at a job, not because they are good leaders) and will hide behind 'HR made me do it/say it/etc., - 99% of examples on this thread is poor management. HR, especially in the ER world, done properly is advisory - weighing up benefits and risks for both employee and employer and advising on differing outcomes depending on the course of action taken - it's not HR's job to manage or decision-make on behalf of line managers

• Most people don't have any clue what we get up to because a lot of what we do is confidential, and the majority certainly don't understand the full nature of the job. They do however think a quick google or 5 minute look over Acas makes them employment law experts

• Good HR practitioners maintain excellent relationships with Trade Unions - where I have worked in heavily unionised organisations, I have always promoted joining them - good TU reps maintain excellent relationships with HR

• Suggesting that none of us are bright is just rude, the further up the ladder you go, the more HR becomes a very complex (and thankless) role. As others have said, most of us in senior level roles will hold masters level qualifications or similar

• None of the above excuses the fact that there are, of course, bad HR practitioners out there, just like there are in any other job/sector/specialism

Not all HR teams are bad. Ours are excellent - but I'm lucky to work for a company that's generally good to work for. It's probably true to say that they're on the side of the company, but that's not the same as being on the side of the employer - we have a strong culture of teamwork, and the SLT recognise that people who are looked after well will generally perform well, and therefore the company will do well and, build a good reputation.

One big thing about our company is that it requires quite a bit of training to get up to speed, so I wonder whether that makes a difference - they don't want to lose someone after they've spent at least 6 months training them up.

Something I think they do well is that they set up clear expectations and goals for everyone, and provide regular feedback, so someone who's regularly not pulling their weight will (after being given a few chances) generally not last very long.

I think it's the same as any role - there will be a mix of good, bad and excellent people the exact same as any other position.

Yes, HR exists to protect the company but that doesn't necessarily mean it's anti-employee. Both purposes can co-exist.

Do yourself a favour and join a Trade Union

Without knowing the full story I can't comment on why you might have been advised not to take action.

That being said, HR is an advisory function. Ultimately it's a business decision as to how to proceed, albeit in the knowledge that there are risks involved.

Well I wish you were HR in my place then as I have done all of that. I want to deal with the issue, I have put them on a PIP, as soon as issues cropped up I alerted HR (as I was new to managing and wanted to get it right).

In return I have had a stream of excuses as to why we can't do anything. By chance I was with the CEO last week and happened to raise the issues with him, he was so appalled he has set me up to talk with the HR director.

Based on my previous experience I dont hold out much hope, but perhaps with the cheif exec involved they might want to act now...