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HR departments see employees as the enemy

260 replies

Donke · 19/02/2024 12:46

I have worked in several public sector orgs (NHS, civil service etc) and their ability to stonewall and gaslight is unbelievable. Why are they so convinced that they can do no wrong and that employees are stupid/dishonest/incompetent?

I am currently fighting with HR over my T&Cs, which should follow a locally agreed protocol. They are refusing to accept that it exists or that they have the skills to use it which makes no sense because every other trust in the region uses it. They will not open their minds to an outside pov. I have had similar before where they insisted on refusing to pay me sick pay. Why??

OP posts:
Runnerinthenight · 22/02/2024 19:44

Millie890 · Today 19:11

You assume, very, very incorrectly.

Casting aspersions at someone else is not big or clever. You could lose the 'patronising' too.

Millie890 · 22/02/2024 19:11

Runnerinthenight · 22/02/2024 16:20

Millie890 · Today 09:23

Yes darling I did. I'd love to know what qualifications you have enabled you to rubbish others people's? "University of life" probably.

Masters with distinction actually. I assume you are a graduate of the "university of life" then?

You assume, very, very incorrectly.

Runnerinthenight · 22/02/2024 18:44

whistleblower99 · Today 16:37

HR proving their level of operation right here is peak MN.

Is that the cattiest thing you can come up with?!

whistleblower99 · 22/02/2024 16:37

HR proving their level of operation right here is peak MN.

Runnerinthenight · 22/02/2024 16:20

Millie890 · Today 09:23

Yes darling I did. I'd love to know what qualifications you have enabled you to rubbish others people's? "University of life" probably.

Masters with distinction actually. I assume you are a graduate of the "university of life" then?

Millie890 · 22/02/2024 09:24

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 22:24

Justifiedcheese · Today 22:19

Millie890 · Today 21:21

"Totes Hilaire"...goodness me...hardly a member of Mensa yourself are you. Awkward!
Show quote history
You both sound about 12.

Thank you so much! Wouldn't you be irritated if your profession was being denigrated the way HR is here?

You sound about 11.

I do work in HR, I'm not the one slagging off the profession...

Millie890 · 22/02/2024 09:23

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 22:23

Millie890 · Today 21:21

Runnerinthenight · Today 20:10

Millie890 · Today 19:06

whistleblower99 · Today 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.
"whistleblower 99"...of course! 😂😂😂

Yeah totes hilaire... you sound intelligent...
"Totes Hilaire"...goodness me...hardly a member of Mensa yourself are you. Awkward!

You clearly aren't smart enough to get sarcasm...

Yes darling I did. I'd love to know what qualifications you have enabled you to rubbish others people's? "University of life" probably.

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 22:24

Justifiedcheese · Today 22:19

Millie890 · Today 21:21

"Totes Hilaire"...goodness me...hardly a member of Mensa yourself are you. Awkward!
Show quote history
You both sound about 12.

Thank you so much! Wouldn't you be irritated if your profession was being denigrated the way HR is here?

You sound about 11.

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 22:23

Millie890 · Today 21:21

Runnerinthenight · Today 20:10

Millie890 · Today 19:06

whistleblower99 · Today 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.
"whistleblower 99"...of course! 😂😂😂

Yeah totes hilaire... you sound intelligent...
"Totes Hilaire"...goodness me...hardly a member of Mensa yourself are you. Awkward!

You clearly aren't smart enough to get sarcasm...

Justifiedcheese · 21/02/2024 22:19

Millie890 · 21/02/2024 21:21

"Totes Hilaire"...goodness me...hardly a member of Mensa yourself are you. Awkward!

You both sound about 12.

Millie890 · 21/02/2024 21:21

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 20:10

Millie890 · Today 19:06

whistleblower99 · Today 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.
"whistleblower 99"...of course! 😂😂😂

Yeah totes hilaire... you sound intelligent...

"Totes Hilaire"...goodness me...hardly a member of Mensa yourself are you. Awkward!

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 20:10

Millie890 · Today 19:06

whistleblower99 · Today 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.
"whistleblower 99"...of course! 😂😂😂

Yeah totes hilaire... you sound intelligent...

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 20:09

whistleblower99 · Today 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.

Well it's a spectacularly rude and ignorant generalisation. I have a primary degree from a Russell Group plus a Masters with Distinction, so I hardly fit your narrow view.

Millie890 · 21/02/2024 19:06

whistleblower99 · 21/02/2024 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.

"whistleblower 99"...of course! 😂😂😂

whistleblower99 · 21/02/2024 18:40

HR are genuinely the most useless part of any organisation. Often with shit degrees if they managed to get past college. You won’t change my opinion.

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 17:11

Megifer · Today 15:32

HollaHolla · Today 15:14

Sorry - you're incorrect. It's 'an', because it's followed by a letter which is pronounced with a lead silent consonant, when said as 'HR'.
If you are saying 'Human Resources' in full, it's 'a;'.
Think about saying it in your head, and what sounds correct to you.

(Yours, a linguistics PhD.) Edited
Show quote history
A sounds perfectly correct to me 😬

Had a look online at jobs and looks like I'm not the only heathen who thinks "a HR" sounds correct. Even a university is advertising for "a HR Advisor", aswell as UK government. The CIPD themselves also refer to "A HR Manager"

Guess it's one of those things that will sound right if you pronounce the H so it fits with the "a"

I guess it depends on how you pronounce 'h', ie "an HR manager" if you pronounce it 'aitch and "a HR manager" is you say 'haitch'?

Megifer · 21/02/2024 15:32

HollaHolla · 21/02/2024 15:14

Sorry - you're incorrect. It's 'an', because it's followed by a letter which is pronounced with a lead silent consonant, when said as 'HR'.
If you are saying 'Human Resources' in full, it's 'a;'.
Think about saying it in your head, and what sounds correct to you.

(Yours, a linguistics PhD.)

Edited

A sounds perfectly correct to me 😬

Had a look online at jobs and looks like I'm not the only heathen who thinks "a HR" sounds correct. Even a university is advertising for "a HR Advisor", aswell as UK government. The CIPD themselves also refer to "A HR Manager"

Guess it's one of those things that will sound right if you pronounce the H so it fits with the "a"

HollaHolla · 21/02/2024 15:14

Megifer · 20/02/2024 20:36

I belive its "a", because the H is pronounced.

Sorry - you're incorrect. It's 'an', because it's followed by a letter which is pronounced with a lead silent consonant, when said as 'HR'.
If you are saying 'Human Resources' in full, it's 'a;'.
Think about saying it in your head, and what sounds correct to you.

(Yours, a linguistics PhD.)

Runnerinthenight · 21/02/2024 15:01

CleanQueen123 · Yesterday 20:19

I highly doubt I'll be believed but I couldn't disagree with this view any more strongly if I tried. It's certainly not how I feel about employees in my organisation.

If I'm frank, generally the problem is line managers, not employees. If line managers took appropriate and timely action to address issues or had robust conversations then my advice wouldn't be needed a lot of the time.

And yet, when it goes wrong HR are expected to wave a magic wand to fix it or are blamed for the problem having occurred in the first place.

I completely agree with this. An awful lot of the problems that come to us could have been avoided if the manager had dealt with the issue at the time. I have a manager who has been literally sitting on a case for a full year. Paid a lot more than me! I've literally written the damn thing for them but the last bit is function-specific and the manager has to do it. I've chased them over the months, largely being ignored, had meetings with them (when they finally do acknowledge my messages), still nada. And the unfortunate employee will be blaming HR!

The organisation I work for is pretty toxic all round. HR has very senior managers who don't so much as have a degree, nor are they professionally qualified. Promoted way beyond their level of competence. Policies and processes that are just not fit for purpose. I say it all the time. We just have to work within the parameters we have.

Personally my integrity is very important to me. I have been accused by a more senior manager of "being too friendly" with managers. I just laugh and carry on. I value my good working relationships and I go above and beyond to help them, and they acknowledge that all the time. I've had employees tell me how much I made them feel at ease in stressful meetings.

Even the team members whom I don't have a lot of professional respect for, I can attest that they do their very best for employees and managers, to the extent of their ability.

CleanQueen123 · 21/02/2024 08:23

JennyLake · 21/02/2024 08:18

I completely believe you. 100%. And I also have complete sympathy for your position. But can’t you see how your stance of denying there is a problem and pushing back blame on the business to deflect is entirely what causes people to believe that HR are hopeless, out to get them etc? And shouldn’t any good HR leader worth their salt make these “known but hidden” issues visible to the Board? You are facilitating the shitty culture that is coming down from the executive and fear of not being able to speak up is hardly setting the tone for the rest of the organisation. Your HR director is failing you the HR team, failing the business and failing the shareholders/owners meanwhile facilitating a poor culture.
it’s not an easy job I admit…but that’s why HR leadership needs to be strong…the easy option is to keep ticking along like nothing is wrong. If your HR director/ executive isnt willing to stand up, I really despair 😞

I don't disagree with you. You're preaching to the choir.

My director wouldn't know who I was if I walked up and punched him in the face so I've got no idea what he's doing and have zero influence over the culture of the organisation.

I'm just the messenger who gets it from all sides and am apparently in the most hated profession on the planet 🤷🏼‍♀️

JennyLake · 21/02/2024 08:18

CleanQueen123 · 21/02/2024 07:54

If only you could be a fly on the wall. I'm fully aware some of our processes are awful and don't actually help managers in the ways they need.

Unfortunately protests from the HR team fall on deaf ears and if we want to keep our jobs we have to follow the party line of self service being the business model for XYZ task.

I'd love to be able to admit to managers that things don't work and I don't like it either but I'm simply not allowed.

I'm sure there are plenty of bad HR professionals out there, just as with any profession, but I'm also sure that many are as tied down by poor policies and processes as the managers are.

I completely believe you. 100%. And I also have complete sympathy for your position. But can’t you see how your stance of denying there is a problem and pushing back blame on the business to deflect is entirely what causes people to believe that HR are hopeless, out to get them etc? And shouldn’t any good HR leader worth their salt make these “known but hidden” issues visible to the Board? You are facilitating the shitty culture that is coming down from the executive and fear of not being able to speak up is hardly setting the tone for the rest of the organisation. Your HR director is failing you the HR team, failing the business and failing the shareholders/owners meanwhile facilitating a poor culture.
it’s not an easy job I admit…but that’s why HR leadership needs to be strong…the easy option is to keep ticking along like nothing is wrong. If your HR director/ executive isnt willing to stand up, I really despair 😞

CasperGutman · 21/02/2024 07:57

The clue is in the title really, isn't it? They're not there to deal with employees as people. They're there to manage business resources, which happen to take the form of humans....

CleanQueen123 · 21/02/2024 07:54

JennyLake · 21/02/2024 07:43

I’m not denying what you are saying…what is annoying however is the entirely dismissive way we are treated by HR…when we dare raise any challenges around poor HR processes the response it…”oh you expect us to do all your work for you….management are lazy….we are not here to spoon feed you” etc and completely denial that the systems they are responsible for are poor. “It’s not our fault it’s yours” is the default response. There is no willingness to engage…to admit the processes they own are poor and ineffective and hugely inefficient and cause management a massive overhead and stress. It’s a really defensive gaslighty culture that I have seen in multiple HR functions over the years (financial services, large corporations). That’s why HR has such a bad reputation. If they acknowledged their own processes were poor, it would feel more as though we were all in it together however the defensiveness and desire to point the finger at the business is what makes people dislike HR.

If only you could be a fly on the wall. I'm fully aware some of our processes are awful and don't actually help managers in the ways they need.

Unfortunately protests from the HR team fall on deaf ears and if we want to keep our jobs we have to follow the party line of self service being the business model for XYZ task.

I'd love to be able to admit to managers that things don't work and I don't like it either but I'm simply not allowed.

I'm sure there are plenty of bad HR professionals out there, just as with any profession, but I'm also sure that many are as tied down by poor policies and processes as the managers are.

JennyLake · 21/02/2024 07:43

CleanQueen123 · 21/02/2024 07:10

I think it's your organisation you need to be looking at here rather than placing the blame with HR.

My organisation is largely a self service model for the more admin based or process driven tasks that fall under the HR umbrella.

This is because the organisation can't/won't pay for enough HR resource for the team to be able to support managers with everything in the way that they'd like.

The limited resource we do have is used mostly to support managers with the higher level things to prevent claims being made against the organisation.

Managers don't like it, we don't like it, but there simply aren't enough hours in the day or staff in the HR team to do it all.

But oh look, that's HR's fault rather than the SLT's.

I’m not denying what you are saying…what is annoying however is the entirely dismissive way we are treated by HR…when we dare raise any challenges around poor HR processes the response it…”oh you expect us to do all your work for you….management are lazy….we are not here to spoon feed you” etc and completely denial that the systems they are responsible for are poor. “It’s not our fault it’s yours” is the default response. There is no willingness to engage…to admit the processes they own are poor and ineffective and hugely inefficient and cause management a massive overhead and stress. It’s a really defensive gaslighty culture that I have seen in multiple HR functions over the years (financial services, large corporations). That’s why HR has such a bad reputation. If they acknowledged their own processes were poor, it would feel more as though we were all in it together however the defensiveness and desire to point the finger at the business is what makes people dislike HR.

Cloudysky81 · 21/02/2024 07:24

NHS HR really does seem to attract the lowest of the low. They don’t seem to be able to get even the basics right. I would love to know what their entry requirements are.