HR departments see employees as the enemy

it's me that earns £90k (£93k actually) and trust me, I give as many shits in real life what most people think of me as I do on here.

Ah, I see. My apologies, other HR person, you guys tend to blend. And I absolutely believe you don't give a shit what people think because you earn so much cash...no idea why HR people think this is a revelation to us. It's literally the problem we have with you!

If it helps though, just in the last week I have helped an employee with cancer navigate her sick pay..."

I can't believe you just exploited a cancer patient to try to big yourself up on the Internet to win in an argument you claim not to care about. The discussion was kind of funny (to me) up to that point, but that's actually really horrid.

@BlackBean2023 well I wish my experience with NHS HR reflected highly qualified, intelligent HR professionals. Sadly I had to deal with an almost total absence of understanding of the Equality Act, disability discrimination and an inability to fill out forms required for medical retirement, all of which was very stressful and made worse by HR failing to admit any mistakes or acting to uphold organisational values and enactpolicy. If the performance I witnessed is worth £90K PA then Christ that's a disgrace.

I am not going to bother engaging with you after this post as it is a waste of time.

You said that in the last post.

For a second time: I never said that I earned £90k.

Then what was the "90 thousand reasons not to give a shit what anyone thinks" stuff about?

HR frequently protect and support individuals even if it is against the immediate business interests.

That "immediate" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Their job is literally to protect the business; you were the one saying something about businesses paying you not 90k because you're worth it to them. Are you trying to suggest HR is actually some sort of brilliant double bluffing cover up operation and will in fact risk all for the sake of Gerald in payroll while making it look like they're actually doing their job?

You'd think such a slick operation would be better at paperwork.

@NonPlayerCharacter it's me that earns £90k (£93k actually) and trust me, I give as many shits in real life what most people think of me as I do on here.

If it helps though, just in the last week I have helped an employee with cancer navigate her sick pay, I care what she thinks. I want her to think I care, and that I understand how scary the situation must be without the stress of work/paying bills - because it's true.

But hey, low intelligence...

I am not going to bother engaging with you after this post as it is a waste of time. You will probably respond anyway - I am sure you will want to have the last word, so go ahead if so. I have nothing more to say & any response will probably say more about you than it does about me.

Briefly:

'You pretty much showed your cards when you said you didn't give a shit what anyone thought because you earn £90k...Expect £90k. Don't expect love'

For a second time: I never said that I earned £90k. And I specifically stated that I didn't expect to be loved.

'nor am I pretending that no job in the world is more worthwhile or important than mine. Again, it's the bloody dishonesty.'

I never 'pretended' or said any such thing.

'But these organisations you mention have HR teams backing up the businesses. This is the lie you won't let go at the heart of the matter. HR is there to protect the business. That might mean protecting an individual but only if that is in the interests of the business.'

I haven't stated any such lie. I actually said the very same thing in my first post. And what you say is untrue; HR frequently protect and support individuals even if it is against the immediate business interests. The HR teams I work for anyway.

You are responding to something that's in your head rather than to my posts. Because you hate HR. Fine, go ahead and hate them. No skin off my nose, I am never likely to be short of work.

Your little tirade here really doesn't lead me to respect your point of view.

You're in HR, I don't expect you to respect the point of view of anyone who's critical of your profession and the people who work in it. You pretty much showed your cards when you said you didn't give a shit what anyone thought because you earn £90k. That was honest and I just wish you people would own it that readily in real life.

I am not complaining about anything and I don't care if people don't love me.

This is the third (fourth?) lengthy post you've written justifying yourself and complaining.

You haven't answered my question and defined what makes a job important vs one that isn't

It was a disingenuous question - as if you can't think of anything that makes a job more worthwhile than HR! Something that involves healing, nursing or protecting vulnerable people. It's OK, I'm not a trauma surgeon either, but nor am I pretending that no job in the world is more worthwhile or important than mine. Again, it's the bloody dishonesty. Maybe you guys are largely just victims of crap branding.

Btw the organisations who employ these professionals also have HR teams backing them up.

Two of the best places I ever worked didn't have HR. They didn't need to. Their policies were clear and accessible and they didn't need protecting because they hired well, treated people well and kept to the law.

But these organisations you mention have HR teams backing up the businesses. This is the lie you won't let go at the heart of the matter. HR is there to protect the business. That might mean protecting an individual but only if that is in the interests of the business. If it isn't, HR will sort the hit and make it look like an accident, and obviously not tell you.

I appreciate you can't tell people when you're doing this, and it isn't your decision to fire people, but you chose the job where you have to do these fixes and act like you're their friend while you do it. Expect £90k. Don't expect love.

Your little tirade here really doesn't lead me to respect your point of view. I am not going to bother explaining the role of HR in organisations....there is plenty of info out there for anyone who is interested.

'You earn £90k and you're literally complaining that the people who don't pay you don't love you? Seriously?'

I am not complaining about anything and I don't care if people don't love me. Seriously. That is all in your head. The premise of this thread irritates me but that is as far as it goes, I will lose zero sleep over it. I haven't actually said how much I am paid (that was another poster who indicated she earned £90k). I work hard for what I earn though & I more than earn the money I am paid as I add value. Don't most of us?

'Something like care work, nursing, teaching or social support comes to mind. Was that a serious question? What could possibly be more important than HR??'

You haven't answered my question and defined what makes a job important vs one that isn't. I respect all the professions you mentioned and also those who work in these; but not everyone reading this will work within these professions and it doesn't mean their work doesn't also have value.

Btw the organisations who employ these professionals also have HR teams backing them up.

'This is honestly the thread that keeps on giving as to why this "profession" has the reputation that it has.'

I am not going to bother responding to this, it says so much about your attitude that it speaks for itself.

I don’t hate HR. However, from my experience as a union rep, I have very clear and unpleasant memories of the times that they have been unfair, unreasonable, and just plain wrong - often at times when employees were vulnerable. And there does seem to be a tendency to resist reconsidering. That last point is particularly annoying when it happens, although in most cases it gets sorted out eventually, after the employee experiences considerable stress about the situation. Anyone can be wrong, but the doubling down is so hard on vulnerable staff.

You really think that companies pay HR staff just for the hell of it...during a cost of living crisis?

They do far stupider things than that! You're trying to claim a COL crisis means people stop being overpaid in senior corporate roles?

You earn £90k and you're literally complaining that the people who don't pay you don't love you? Seriously?

Define what makes a job 'much more important'.

Something like care work, nursing, teaching or social support comes to mind. Was that a serious question? What could possibly be more important than HR??

This is honestly the thread that keeps on giving as to why this "profession" has the reputation that it has.

I don't know why HR exists as they are so useless as to put the employer at a higher risk than if they just were not there.
And the staff are of such low quality, it's just a dumping ground for low achievers.

'Most people earn far less than that even when doing much more important jobs and they don't get universal adoration either.'

You really think that companies pay HR staff just for the hell of it...during a cost of living crisis? Define what makes a job 'much more important'. I don't think you have any idea what an HR team does, so much of it is behind the scenes. Anecdotally, many bad managers hide behind HR rather than make tough decisions - 'HR told me I had to do this' - which of course makes HR look bad in the eyes of employees.

'I don't know about HR seeing employees as the enemy, but I do know having sat in a number of disciplinary hearings as "the prisoner's friend" that's the only sensible way for an employee to treat HR.'

I don't know what kind of organisations some of you work for. I know there are dreadful ones, I have worked for some of these in the past (I left asap). Again: HR is only as good as the organisation it is in.

I now work for an organisation I am proud to be a part of, where the (very very few) employees who face disciplinary sanctions mostly richly deserve them. Because where company values are taken seriously there are high expectations of everyone at the workplace.

I've spent the last 25 years working for a company with no HR department. It's not all roses here either.

I have seen a lot of awful HR in my time. I've seen loads of employers pay out a lot at tribunal.

Yet here you are...

I don't know about HR seeing employees as the enemy, but I do know having sat in a number of disciplinary hearings as "the prisoner's friend" that's the only sensible way for an employee to treat HR.

They are the company police. No more, no less.

there does seem to be a general acceptance of rudeness to/about HR professionals.

The 90,000 reasons you have not to care about what people on the Internet think (so well demonstrated here!) should also be good enough reasons to get over the fact that enough people in your profession are incompetent and intrusive in their roles to have given the profession a reputation. Most people earn far less than that even when doing much more important jobs and they don't get universal adoration either.

Like I said earlier, if it rebranded as Business Interests, we could drop the pretence that it's about people and staff would probably find it much easier to take.

I personally think I'm worth the money but like the PP said, I can't tell everyone what I do to advocate for employees because of the nature of my role. I work with integrity and have walked away from jobs where this has been pushed.

I don't take pleasure in dismissing people. At the end of the day we're all human, we all make mistakes and we mostly only go to work because we need the money.

My team are told constantly that they must communicate with people at all stages of the recruitment process. If I had an HR admin who was ghosting people, being unhelpful or displaying some of the behaviours I've seen described in this thread they'd be working elsewhere.

There are crap people in all sorts of roles- it's not unique to HR but there does seem to be a general acceptance of rudeness to/about HR professionals.

@BlackBean2023 but surely if the high salary is justified, we should be able to expect HR people to be competent in their roles? I don't think anyone should be making personal attacks or being rude, but surely you can understand that poor performance from some HR people creates the prevailing negative view. In my experience a good HR person is worth their weight in gold but usually moves on quickly.

This, in spades.

@Livingtothefull I've decided I don't care if people don't like me. Like you, in taken years of study alongside work and family life to be educated to masters level and hold FCIPD. It's a well paid role that gives me almost 90,000 reasons to not care what strangers on the internet think of me.

I don't think that HR being a mainly female profession is part of why many have a negative view of HR teams. As an employee I just wanted HR people to be competent at their jobs, communicate at least adequately, and understand and apply the organisation's own policies. Sadly my experience was that the ability to do the above was sadly lacking, with HR indulging in allot of defensiveness and arse-covering to avoid admitting when they got it wrong.

It couldn't be related to it being a female-dominated profession could it?

No. We've given all the reasons, at length, about why nobody likes HR. And one of those reasons is that they don't listen, as gloriously demonstrated here.

Really tiresome to read the HR profession being denigrated on here. It couldn't be related to it being a female-dominated profession could it?

I used to work in HR and can confirm the HR department is only as good as the organisation it is in, the good practitioners quickly leave toxic organisations for those where their views are respected. And of course they are there to support the interests of the organisation...just like every other department. You want someone to advocate just for you? Join a union.

But the best HR teams will look to ensure fair treatment of employees and that the Company adheres to its own values. I can't tell you how often I have seen HR upholding employee rights to managers and insisting that they are treated fairly. But the employee is not privy to those discussions and completely unaware of how much HR have supported them.

Oh and you have to be highly educated with a Masters-level qualification to reach the top of the profession. I got mine through studying whilst working full time and caring for a disabled child, so am rather proud of it. So even if you don't like us, less of the 'HR people are thick' please.

HR are in the side of management and the organisation always have been and always will be. If you work in a sector or organisation where HR don't know what they are doing, and they are clueless, total result as you can use it to your advantage.

I hugely enjoyed the argument between HR and one of the departments in our office about whether something was an equality issue. HR was absolutely adamant that it wasn't, and really got quite hot under the collar about it. The trouble is, the department they were arguing with was the employment law department.

You’re quite correct. For HR the employees are the enemy.

It is literally their job to protect the employer from the employees. At all costs.