Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU To think that Labour is more against aspirations than the Conservatives?

220 replies

DistinguishedSocialCommenator · 16/02/2024 10:30

Both of the above are ready to shaft the hard-working people who have not just worked hard, but spent/invested wisely rather than throw it way on lifestyles.

IMO, Labour is seriously anti those with some investments, EG, BTL, and people who own another property. People who have savings etc as these people decided not to blow away their money but be wise with it

Both, Labour and Tories don't give a flying F about those that own even a single property when it comes to care home charges. The new alliance is a con. So, if you don't own you home as about 45% of England does not, you are unlikely to be shafted unless you have large amount of savings for your rainy day/retirement etc

The extra tax on cars , ir road tax pay extra in their hundreds/thousands on cars costing more than 40k new RRP was set several years ago and not been adjusted for inflation - thanks to Tories

LL's getting hammered by new rules always favouring the T's - There are many good LL's as well as T's, so why penalise asperations?

We boguth a couple of properties to fund our retirement, erly retirement and went without hols/etc for many years and at times both of us worked 50 hours a week, 6/7 days a week. We also did not want to live of the state and pass money etc to our children/grandchildren to help them to a less stressful start thn us.

Though both Lab/Con are as bad as the other, if you've saved a few qquid, earn a decent amount of money and have more than one property, AIBU to think the Labour lot will shat us hard, seriously hard and waste money on foolish projects in order to secure votes for the next election if they win this election?

OP posts:
Naptrappedmummy · 16/02/2024 17:11

IClaudine · 16/02/2024 17:08

Just because you don't understand it didn't mean it didn't happen. The IFS report will be on their website somewhere.

Show quote history

I’m not saying it didn’t happen at all, I’m actually surprised it took place (I believe you) but what I don’t believe is that it would be accepted now. If public health workers announced tomorrow they wanted access to the houses of more deprived children to inspect them, there would be outcry - invasion of privacy, human rights, undignified treatment of the marginalised and so on

IClaudine · 16/02/2024 17:08

Naptrappedmummy · 16/02/2024 17:04

They went from house to house did they, looking for dangerous dogs and fall hazards and exposed wires? Sorry I still don’t understand what you posted about reducing children’s accidents and hospital admissions

Show quote history

Just because you don't understand it didn't mean it didn't happen. The IFS report will be on their website somewhere.

Naptrappedmummy · 16/02/2024 17:04

IClaudine · 16/02/2024 16:24

Well, naptrappedmummy, I will let you into a little secret.

The initiative I outlined was real. Sure Start (as others have mentioned, but I don't think you made the link?), introduced in 1998.

The savings to the NHS that I quoted were also real (stats calculated by the Institute for Fiscal Studies).

There were many other positive outcomes such as four positive outcomes for mothers and families (more stimulating and less chaotic home environments, less harsh discipline, and greater life-satisfaction).

http://www.ness.bbk.ac.uk/impact/documents/RB067.pdf

Sure start was really popular and deemed so important that the day before the 2010 election Cameron promised to keep funding for the centres. He said that Gordon Brown's warnings that the Tories would take an axe to them was scaremongering

You can guess what happened next. Yes! The Tories took an axe to the funding for Sure Start. Since 2010, the policy of austerity has led to the closure of 1,416 Sure Start centres in England (down from a total of 3,620 in 2010 to 2,204 in 2023) – a figure that doesn’t even include children’s centre sites linked to Sure Start

Even the Tories now know this was a mistake. Sunak said he will open 75 “family hubs” by 2025.

"Having drilled a hole in a bucketful of water 13 years ago, the Conservative government is trickling some back in again and asking the country to ignore the leak" is how the Spectator put it.

Edited
Show quote history

They went from house to house did they, looking for dangerous dogs and fall hazards and exposed wires? Sorry I still don’t understand what you posted about reducing children’s accidents and hospital admissions

Naptrappedmummy · 16/02/2024 17:02

Charlie2121 · 16/02/2024 16:45

Labour favour those who are not net contributors.

The fact that only 20% of people are net contributors means they now have a huge voter base who lap up all the promises of tax rises they’ll never have to pay themselves such as VAT on private school fees.

It won’t end well. Too many people play the role of victims nowadays. Personal responsibility is seen as anathema by many which is a pretty catastrophic state of affairs.

It'll get worse, much worse under Labour.

Their general modus operandi is to increase the bases of people who vote for them - it was immigrants in the early 2000s but now immigrant families have either returned because the country doesn’t offer the same opportunity now, or done well for themselves and now have no reason to vote labour. So it’ll be people on benefits and a slim wedge of wealthier bohemian types (although many of them tend to be shy tories). I think a lot of votes for labour will be through despairing at the tories rather than natural affiliation with their stance. That’s basically why I’m voting for them. I would much prefer a centrist party, a bit like New Labour, with a youngish leader with a radical vision and the bollocks to impose it.

SheriffofRottingham · 16/02/2024 17:00

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Naptrappedmummy · 16/02/2024 16:58

IClaudine · 16/02/2024 16:52

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record

Show quote history

No I mean record taxation is seen as a right wing policy is it Confused

bombastix · 16/02/2024 16:57

@dollybird - based on the unremarkable point that older people have had longer to build themselves up, had higher state spending over a lifetime, get triple locked state pension arrangements.

Not all old people are wealthy. But they certainly have a better deal overall than the young from this government. Societies that spend their time, policies and resources on the old are foolish.

I would have a triple lock on education and children's services. That's where our spending and tax should go, and supporting business.

LightSwerve · 16/02/2024 16:51

Naptrappedmummy · 16/02/2024 16:48

Record taxation? Confused

Show quote history

Since ww2.

Naptrappedmummy · 16/02/2024 16:48

LightSwerve · 16/02/2024 16:46

Those policies are right wing.

Having put up taxes to deal with the overall mismanagement and stagnant economy is a separate matter.

Show quote history

Record taxation? Confused

milkingtime · 16/02/2024 16:46

I’m a hard working person and was better off under Labour.

conditions under Labour were far more conducive to running a business for a start.

who would want to start up a business now? Loans are expensive, everything costs a fortune, wages are going up to compensate which drives costs up further.

LightSwerve · 16/02/2024 16:46

Alcyoneus · 16/02/2024 14:13

Yeah so right wing. So very right wing that we have record taxation and government spending to pay for all these right wing policies. Oh dear.

Show quote history

Those policies are right wing.

Having put up taxes to deal with the overall mismanagement and stagnant economy is a separate matter.

Charlie2121 · 16/02/2024 16:45

Labour favour those who are not net contributors.

The fact that only 20% of people are net contributors means they now have a huge voter base who lap up all the promises of tax rises they’ll never have to pay themselves such as VAT on private school fees.

It won’t end well. Too many people play the role of victims nowadays. Personal responsibility is seen as anathema by many which is a pretty catastrophic state of affairs.

It'll get worse, much worse under Labour.

user8800 · 16/02/2024 16:45

Aspirations = Grift and tax evasion?

IClaudine · 16/02/2024 16:44

Lovingthegrungerevival · 16/02/2024 16:43

One third of centres closed - there are still around 2,200 in England.

Show quote history

Yes, a huge cut.

dollybird · 16/02/2024 16:44

bombastix · 16/02/2024 14:17

I would just like streets that are safe, spending on children not old people who have enough already, a functioning railway, a health service and someone to clean the whole place up.

I know this is possible because I have seen and lived in such a place. Not this dump where slowly everything is being given over to the old and very rich. It's like we've given up on the future.

Nice generalisation that old = rich there

Lovingthegrungerevival · 16/02/2024 16:43

LightSwerve · 16/02/2024 16:42

It was hugely cut and many closed. So in many areas it was effectively stopped.

Another shit move from the Tories.

Show quote history

One third of centres closed - there are still around 2,200 in England.

gegs73 · 16/02/2024 16:43

IClaudine · 16/02/2024 14:19

How about having centres in every community that provide integrated care and services for young children and their families, with a particular focus on closing the achievement gap for children from disadvantaged backgrounds? Would you approve of that @Naptrappedmummy?

Show quote history

Agreed. This is what used to be with the last Labour government and Sure Start, taken away by the Tories.

IClaudine · 16/02/2024 16:43

Lovingthegrungerevival · 16/02/2024 16:40

Surestart hasn't been stopped

Show quote history

Over 1400 centres have shut, so presumably the one in extraonions' are is one of them.

LightSwerve · 16/02/2024 16:42

Lovingthegrungerevival · 16/02/2024 16:40

Surestart hasn't been stopped

Show quote history

It was hugely cut and many closed. So in many areas it was effectively stopped.

Another shit move from the Tories.

Lovingthegrungerevival · 16/02/2024 16:40

ExtraOnions · 16/02/2024 16:22

Surestart was not (from my experience) populated by middle class mums. The schemes were often attached to primary schools in fairly deprived areas. My sister was chair of Governors at one such school, and Surestart made a massive difference … it was a disgrace when it was stopped.

Surestart hasn't been stopped

Original poster
DistinguishedSocialCommenator · 16/02/2024 16:38

ExtraOnions · 16/02/2024 10:45

Thanks for giving me a laugh ….

Is this because the current Conservative government is doing such a great job in looking after people who have “worked hard and saved” ?

Rise in mortgage rates that have made things increasingly difficult for smaller landlords? Rise in the cost of utilities?

Of course you spout the usual right-wing rhetoric on your post … “hard workers get more” if you haven’t got more then you must be lazy or feckless as you have “blown it” (no recognition for those who didn’t have “it” in the first place)

The undeserving poor eh? Who weren’t “wise” but were thick (you do know that a huge amount of state benefit is paid out to people who are working really hard, but wages are shocking low)

Of course lots of people don’t own a house … the prices have gone up, part of this is because some people don’t own just one house, they own two or three.. so they can earn an income from renting .. by people stuck renting.. as house prices are high .. as people own two or three houses etc etc etc

You do realise that taxes are high right now ?

You were lucky to be born at a time where you could own a house, whilst working in an average paid job, those days have past … anything to redress the balance is good news !

I never stated they were doing "well" far from it and mostly thanks to the dangerous idiot the toy members voted in, the one before Rishi.
That woman I've said it before she became a lol leader of England that she'd either get us nuked or bankrupt ad she'd stay i office for a few weeks,

I'm no fan of the selfish Tories or the left-wing lot, trust me. They are as bad as each other and that is a fact.

Tories would try to butter up voters in our financial position on the hole and Lab would try to butter on those in social housing/benefits, low wages.

Both of them put themselves first, big business second, the serious rich next and all of us last. If you are disagreeing with this, then you deserve the gov you get

Tores bang on about "aspirations being rewarded" like fuck do they. The lab lot will give you a free house and much higher benefits and a great NHS - will the fuck.

Look at Labour gov in Wales - they are doing a great job - lol, but I won't as many are suffering under them

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 16/02/2024 16:38

It’s almost as if after embarrassingly losing another couple of by elections, the Tory bots are out in force today ………

Shinyandnew1 · 16/02/2024 16:35

In my area the Surestart centres did a lot of work and activities that were targeted.

I completely agree-I taught at a school with one attached-it was fantastic in supporting our families.

LightSwerve · 16/02/2024 16:32

IwishIcouldfinishabook · 16/02/2024 16:14

The problem with Surestart is the same problem with the holiday clubs. They are populated by middle class mums getting free stuff, not the people it's targeted at, but the people these things are targeted at are not attending, so the services are wasted. Im not syre what the answer is to that either, or how to reach out to those families. However, Surestart did make a difference despite this. Now the Tories have taken Labour's pre school dental policy and repackaged it as their own. This is why Labour don't reveal any policy.

Show quote history

This is not true.

In my area the Surestart centres did a lot of work and activities that were targeted.

There were ALSO some general groups and HV drop ins open to all but they worked to benefit the local population too, spotting health issues early and providing wider support.

The services were absolutely not wasted. It was a great use of money.