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Original poster

Q re national curriculum - conditional tense English language

209 replies

lightlights · 15/02/2024 15:34

Any experts on the national curriculum around? I have been looking at various sites and it seems that the conditional tense is not taught in years reception - year 13?

By conditional tense I mean the conjugated past and present conditional for verbs, for example would have, could have etc.

I have also noticed quite a lot about zero conditional, first conditional, second conditional etc in relation to teaching English as a second language. I was taught formal grammar which I am fairly sure did not include these ways of categorising the conditional tense, we learned the straightforward conjugated past and present conditional for verbs. Are these ways of categorising just taught to people learning English as a second language, and if so why?

Thank you very much!

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/02/2024 19:01

lightlights · 15/02/2024 18:11

I am not asking about modality or modal verbs. Modality is to do with expression and nuance of meaning.

Your example "If i were you..." is subjunctive not conditional (or modal)

Example of conditional: "If I had gone to the shop yesterday, I would have seen it in the sale and I could have bought it"

You will see lots of complaints on MN about people writing "would of" instead of "would have" - the correct one is conditional.

Show quote history

That's where English as a second language doesn't help. Those errors are because in a large number of accents, the contracted 'could have' - 'could've', 'should have' - 'Should've' - sounds almost identical to 'could of' and 'should of'. Because the usual method of teaching reading and writing is Phonics, the subsequent confusion in the sounds carries on for some people and they do not realise that it should be 'have' instead of 'of'.

BlindurErBóklausMaður · 15/02/2024 18:45

noidea02 · 15/02/2024 18:35

The conditional absolutely is a tense!

Show quote history

Tenses show time. English has two (the word "tense" means the use of a modified base form of a verb to show time of some kind. The only two forms in English that do this are the present simple and the past simple. Every other verb form showing time is an aspect, not a tense.

Conditionals show conditions + results and change depending on the probability of the condition occurring. So, as the OP notes, we have Zero, First, Second, Third and Mixed conditionals. Dealing with hypothesis and probability, not time, they aren't tenses.

mathanxiety · 15/02/2024 18:41

My DCs were taught English grammar explicitly in the US beginning in 3rd grade (aged 8). The conditional was taught primarily as abbreviations (could've, would've, should've, hadn't, wouldn't have, shouldn't have, etc). But they also had to do a lot of fill in the blanks-style worksheets with sentences beginning "If they hadn't...", "If John had...", "Had it not been for the snow...", etc.

I learned all my grammar through Irish, again starting around age 8. It has been extremely handy.

noidea02 · 15/02/2024 18:35

BlindurErBóklausMaður · 15/02/2024 18:30

Conditionals aren't tenses.
A quick Google shows "if" clauses are initially taught in Year 2 in their simplest form, with pure conditional sentences using subordinates in lower KS2 along with the remnants of subjunctives that still hang around in English.

The conditional absolutely is a tense!

BlindurErBóklausMaður · 15/02/2024 18:30

Conditionals aren't tenses.
A quick Google shows "if" clauses are initially taught in Year 2 in their simplest form, with pure conditional sentences using subordinates in lower KS2 along with the remnants of subjunctives that still hang around in English.

Original poster
lightlights · 15/02/2024 18:19

Olivebrancholivia · 15/02/2024 15:38

Pretty sure everything you wrote is foreign.

No idea. I've never been taught any of that.

So many people say what you say, that grammar is double dutch, but I have been looking through the academic sites which provide worksheets etc, and fairly extensive grammar is supposed to be taught at school! (Just not the conditional from the look of it which is why I am trying to find a teacher or an expert in the curriculum to answer!)

OP posts:
Original poster
lightlights · 15/02/2024 18:11

Tabletable · 15/02/2024 15:44

Modal verbs are taught in about year five and then the tenses would be taught separately. Eg. Could be swimming for modal plus present progressive or do you mean ‘If I were you’, as conditional tense?

I am not asking about modality or modal verbs. Modality is to do with expression and nuance of meaning.

Your example "If i were you..." is subjunctive not conditional (or modal)

Example of conditional: "If I had gone to the shop yesterday, I would have seen it in the sale and I could have bought it"

You will see lots of complaints on MN about people writing "would of" instead of "would have" - the correct one is conditional.

OP posts:
Tabletable · 15/02/2024 15:44

Modal verbs are taught in about year five and then the tenses would be taught separately. Eg. Could be swimming for modal plus present progressive or do you mean ‘If I were you’, as conditional tense?

Olivebrancholivia · 15/02/2024 15:38

Pretty sure everything you wrote is foreign.

No idea. I've never been taught any of that.