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Does the UK begrudge success?

236 replies

Viohh · 12/02/2024 15:39

Just interested in having a conversation really.

My parents were children of Indian (Sikh) immigrants who worked in factories then eventually owned shops. My own parents themselves forgave holidays, nice clothes etc to send their kids to private schools (also corner shop owners). As a family of 5 we lived in a 2 bed flat until I was 16. We did go to private school. I remember the envy I felt of classmates’ houses when we went on play dates. I always went to after school club. Often the last to be picked up.

Fast forward, I’m now a consultant at a big 4 firm. One brother is a pilot and the other is a doctor. Many assume I come from privilege and only the super rich can send children to private schools. The way I was raised has left a lot of psychological damage which current society almost dismisses.

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships which now is retrospectively being dressed up as ‘privilege’ in modern society.

OP posts:
Boomboom22 · 12/02/2024 16:56

Your post is about being educationally privileged whilst also emotionally abused and dv by both parents towards you. Yet you excuse your father due to the stress and appear to be trying to excuse them again with your title, which is nothing to do with your childhood.
You are successful and did go to private school. Many kids who went to private school were richer than you. Almost all I know were emotionally neglected, especially boarders. But you are confused because you say it was he'll om earth thrn you felt overwhelmed with love but your mum didn't want you? Very muddled.

Crikeyalmighty · 12/02/2024 16:55

I think many people do resent wealth rather than success . There are plenty of wealthy people who aren't wealthy via their own efforts but have inherited large amounts or inherited businesses etc . I do think though that your post smacks a bit of the 'if you never have holidays and basic living' you too could send your kids to private school-- which given the costs involved isn't the case for most of the population. Even those who are only paying 50% - that would still be about £16k a year if you have a couple of children-

Tiffanyis · 12/02/2024 16:54

It's not the responsibility of those around you now to pity the child you were then, horrible as your childhood was OP. On the surface, yes, you probably do look and sound privileged.

The only thing you can control and change is yourself and your own emotions - and it sounds like therapy would help you (and your siblings) if they feel the same way.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 12/02/2024 16:52

kintra · 12/02/2024 16:35

Well I think that's probably the root of your problem. But don't take digs at my culture because you have issues with your own

I feel like that was more of an explanation than a dig.

pointythings · 12/02/2024 16:50

I agree with previous posters who have highlighted the level of inequality that exists in the UK and that this leads to resentment.

I don't actually have a problem with people being wealthy, not at all. That would be hypocritical - I own my home outright, have substantial savings, have been able to foster a young person and set them up with savings the same as my own DC who regard them as a sibling. I need to work, but I'm financially comfortable. I also grew up with loving parents and even though I had a hellish few years with an alcohol dependent husband, that's all in the past now so I'm pretty privileged.

What I do find difficult to deal with is people who think that it's possible for everyone to drag themselves up from poverty like that, and that if they do not manage it that is because they are feckless, lazy, incapable. If there is resentment of the privileged and the wealthy then this is dwarfed by the resentment of those who are poor and need support. What I see most in the UK is resentment of anyone who has more than someone else. And it's worse if both parties are not rich. The race to the bottom seems to be a UK invention. People have forgotten that comparison is the thief of joy.

Viohh · 12/02/2024 16:43

I have 2 parents who gave a shit about me. That itself was the privilege. Have never/will never deny that.

OP posts:
sorestupid · 12/02/2024 16:41

I had a pretty tough upbringing but on one hand was financially privileged which has improved my lot today so I’m more privileged then the person who had a tough upbringing without any financial benefit.

There’s also a lack of social mobility in the UK and younger generations are disproportionately impacted by high housing costs which is wrong. And a lot of people don’t like to recognise their privilege.

SongbirdGarden · 12/02/2024 16:41

I think here in the UK we have a very limited vision of what success means. Most see it as being wealthy, educated, financially secure, famous even, but that doesn't mean a thing if your unhappy. Happiness is the key to success.
Many so called successful people didn't have a private education ,but they had the drive, the vision and the faith to get on and achieve what they did. Luck also plays a part.
Most of us had complex childhoods, the secret is to learn, grow and heal from it. We are not responsible for our childhoods, but we are responsible for how we heal ourselves. I have long forgiven my parents, not for their sake, but mine.

Bucakwoo · 12/02/2024 16:41

I resent the idea I grew up privileged.

But who is telling you that you're priveledged? Why are you letting it affect your life this much?

sorestupid · 12/02/2024 16:38

I think you are worrying about semantics. privileged does not mean happy, or not abused,. You can be both. Lots of very privileged children are horrendously neglected.

This

Cherryon · 12/02/2024 16:36

Op,
Perhaps, for you, the DV outweighs all the privileges you did have. Private school, parental support, secure housing, no hunger, good health?, etc and that is ok. It is ok to admit, yes I had these handful of privileges but taken as whole, I was not that privileged. Or even to think that the privilege you had was not worth the stress and DV that likely centred on how much they do/did for you.

When we think about privilege it can be hard to fully comprehend all those less privileged than yourself because we usually look up, we usually notice those with more privilege than ourselves. I think it is human nature to be aspirational.

kintra · 12/02/2024 16:35

Viohh · 12/02/2024 16:29

Indians don’t go no contact the way people from other cultures do.

Well I think that's probably the root of your problem. But don't take digs at my culture because you have issues with your own

WhatATimeToBeAlive · 12/02/2024 16:34

Yes, it's the Tall Poppy Syndrome. "Cutting down" people when they become too successful.

Comefromaway · 12/02/2024 16:33

Midgetastic is correct. The school fees for ds & dd were total of £18,000 per year. Our family income was approx £40,000 per year but back then housing costs were a lot cheaper. I think we paid something like £200-300 per month housing costs

If we were doing it today our salary would have gone up a bit to £60,000 but the fees would be £32,000 and housing would be around £600-800 per month.

Viohh · 12/02/2024 16:32

Yes I went to private school.

But I also witnessed a breakdown where my mother hit her head against a wall and screamed how she wished she never had children.

OP posts:
Ursulla · 12/02/2024 16:31

Just wondering if anyone has gone through similar hardships

Obviously I haven't met every UK citizen that ever lived but I have met people who live in overcrowded flats. I've also met people who went to private school. I have never encountered any single person who has simultaneously lived in overcrowded unsuitable accommodation and attended fully paid for private school. Probably because most people would prioritise providing a suitable living environment for their children over sending them to private school.

So, I imagine your particular situation is unusual.

However, it's probably not that unusual for children at private school to have a neglectful home environment in other ways - neglect can happen regardless of income level.

To my mind, neglect in itself doesn't mean that you and those children didn't have the obvious benefits of a private education and the obvious benefit of being in a family rich enough to be able to buy that education. It also doesn't mean you're "privileged" because as I understand it "privilege" is a particular concept re non-material circumstance that innures a person from a particular worry eg a white person doesn't worry about racial discrimination. That's different from being rich! You're either rich or you're not. (You personally are, btw!)

As for privilege discourse, I think it can be useful to raise awareness of barriers to safety or realising potential or whatnot but I also think it can get very wrapped up in the whole plucky victims Vs powerful baddies narrative that there seems to be lot of in contemporary chatter, with everyone trying to prove their virtue by emphasising their victim status in comparison to everyone else. And this kind of reductive and simplistic point scoring doesn't get us anywhere.

Have you thought about having therapy to help deal with the emotions about your childhood?

Viohh · 12/02/2024 16:31

Sorry the title is dumb. I guess the title was a stab at trying to explain the root cause of people wanting to portray my upbringing as privileged.

We just want to slap labels in a black and white manner imo.

OP posts:
Goldenbear · 12/02/2024 16:31

No, what people resent is the dramatic shifting of income distribution, the demise of both the working and middle classes due to 40 years of corporate welfare, the tax loopholes and advantages, the removal of trade union powers and the active penalising of them (see new trade union legislation) stock market highs coupled with near-stagnant wages has meant most economic advantage have gone to those at the top. It is not our country alone having a culture of resenting success, that's baloney!

This pattern of wealth inequality is a global problem. People worth less than $10K — 53% of the world’s adult population — hold 1.2% of the world’s assets.
People worth over $1 million — 1.1% of the world’s adult population — hold 46% of the world’s wealth.

Unfortunately, it has dangerous consequences for the world at the moment as the populist politics feeds of this resentment.

CasperGutman · 12/02/2024 16:30

I don't think British people resent success, necessarily. If people assume you grew up privileged, it may be because a large proportion of those in similar jobs to yours did grow up privileged. It may also relate to how you come across to them in terms of accent, bearing etc.

It's awful that you were subject to domestic abuse, but this does not necessarily mean you weren't privileged in other ways.

However, going to private school doesn't have to mean you're 'super rich' (whatever some on this thread think). A friend's children attend private school. Both parents are teachers on the main pay scale, earning about £35k-£38k. One of them happens to teach in a private school, which offers staff 50% fee discounts. The full fees are ~£13,000 p.a., so they pay a fraction over £1,000 per month for both children. They afford this by living in a very ordinary 3-bed semi that they spend very little on, driving second hand cars until they break down irreparably, and having cheap holidays (maybe one package holiday a year, whatever they can get as a last minute deal).

Many may consider their annual income to be high. It may seem unattainably high to some. But the median annual full-time income is £34,963 (source: ONS), so while they are lucky to have two full time professional earners in the household, they are certainly not in the 'super rich' or 'exceptionally wealthy' bracket.

Employee earnings in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Measures of employee earnings, using data from the Annual Survey for Hours and Earnings (ASHE).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2023

Viohh · 12/02/2024 16:29

kintra · 12/02/2024 16:23

These two reasons alone are enough for therapy. Number 1, why do you care what people say? You're selectively reading and responding though, so I'm not sure what you want out of this thread. Given that you're still in contact with your parents, I can see why people are making the assumption your childhood wasn't how you describe.

Indians don’t go no contact the way people from other cultures do.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 12/02/2024 16:28

The current fees at the school ds attended are £16,000 per year.

His friend comes from a single parent family with an income of less than £20,000 per year. Even assuming a 2 parent family with an income of approx £40,000 per year paying £16k of school fees plus the very expensive uniforms etc would be an impossibility especially with more than one child.

LoveAHamSandwhich · 12/02/2024 16:27

I don't understand how the title of this thread matches your issue?

Viohh · 12/02/2024 16:27

Having parents who wanted a successful future for me is the privilege. Will never downplay that.

OP posts:
Dweetfidilove · 12/02/2024 16:26

turkeymuffin · 12/02/2024 16:20

@Dweetfidilove how can you pay half school
fees whilst also earning so little as to claim UC? The usual UC position is it's hardly enough to live on. Can't be savings as you wouldn't be eligible for UC.

The edit button seems to have disappeared.

50% scholarship, 50% bursary.

midgetastic · 12/02/2024 16:25

I agree the school was a privilege for the OP but just to note that it's quite possible that the OP wasn't from a wealthy family with the other privileges we associate with private schools today - her privilege might be in one aspect only and paid for in other aspects

Private school fees rather like house prices have increased disproportionately over the last few decades - if you were paying at 1980s rates you would pay per year what people are paying per term now. An ordinary family ( on say 2 teachers salary ) then could chose to prioritise education over homes and holidays

We almost all have forms of privilege compared to others - a caring family? A good school? Nice home? Great travel experiences? Good health ? Good friends and family close by? Money ? Good looks ?