Does the UK begrudge success?

Bright children from comprehensive schools from generation x have not done as well as expected. Living standards in the UK have dropped and are now as bad if not worse than some developing countries. In these circumstances people are pulling out their own teeth with pliers and are living in damp overcrowded private rented housing . it would be surprising if people didn't bregrudge success. Largely they don't which is somewhat surprising.

Pakistani Sikh waving hello.

Attending private school is a huge privilege, having a bad childhood doesn’t undo that. My husband attended a very well known boarding school, that was a huge privilege, his parents were shit, that doesn’t undo the privilege of his education. I spent some of my childhood in care, I also attended oxbridge, that still makes me privileged.

I don't think it's about begrudging success per se. It's about begrudging the inherent unfairness in our society that means certain privileged sections of it can get ahead on inherited wealth and nepotism while the rest of us have to kill ourselves working at 150% to get even anywhere near.

@Viohh - I had a similar background. Parents were first generation immigrants from the Punjab, worked in factories, all of the children highly intelligent and won assisted places to private secondary schools - outcomes - Oxbridge, lawyers, doctors.

We are all traumatised by our childhood - our parents did their best for us and made enormous sacrifices, but we were poor, in addition to working our parents spare time was spent growing vegetables to feed us (vegetarian diet). There was no spare money - we were sent on school trips (educational), but if we were going for a week I needed to wash my clothes as I didn't own 7 pairs of knickers - my parents couldn't afford that.

The financial pressures they were under caused massive arguments that went on for days and we witnessed domestic violence. We were all emotionally abused. We all experienced racism.

We all have been left with massive mental health issues , low self esteem, anxiety, depression. We may have better exam results but our mental illnesses have held us back in our careers.

Also - it was different in the 1980s - ordinary people could pay private school fees if they chose.

My mummy friends think I must have been born with a silver spoon in my mouth due to the private school and Oxbridge and my profession. They have the freedom to not work due to generations of family wealth but don't recognise their privilege.

@Viohh would you prefer lucky rather than privileged? It is through sheer luck that your parents were abusive AND focused on education, and you got the education you got, and probably the successful job. A lot of kids grow up in similar situations and have parents that don't give a crap about their education, some actively try to prevent their kids to better themselves etc.

I think the word privilege brings up a certain image , that of course doesn't match your abusive childhood. Just like for others, the words private school brings up a certain image that doesn't match your abusive childhood. So you're at opposite ends, each focusing on the image rather than the reality.

You were privileged/lucky to have parents that really cared about your education, even if it stops there. There will be envy, there will be people calling you privileged.

Just like a homeless person thinks anyone with a roof over their heads (no matter what horrors go under that roof ) is privileged.

Just like someone who can't afford food thinks someone else is privileged if they don't have to even think about their next meal.

Just like I think someone who grew up in a loving,supportive,stable and non abusive environment is privileged, even if we were quite well off and my parents also cared about education.

It's not a race to the bottom really, it's comparing battle scars.

The more equal a society is, in terms of opportunity and wealth, the happier and more cohesive it is. The UK is one of the most unequal developed countries and it's getting worse.

It's a simple fact that we don't all have the same opportunities, and even those who overcome their disadvantages compete with the privileged they're still disadvantaged. For example, if someone working-class ends up with the same degree, from the same University, they'll earn less.

The fact that most of our wealth, and land, is in the hands of the same families gifted it in 1066 is a pretty good indicator of where some resentment might come from.

The thing is if everyone was a go-getter who improved themselves in life who would do the low paid jobs which are essential to the functioning of our society? I think part of the problem in the UK is that success is measured in material things, a big house, a fancy car, exotic holidays etc. Many people who have these things look down on those who don't ( as can quite often be seen on threads here) and think that they could have those things if only they tried harder.

I think also that the divide between the haves and have nots is becoming greater and even those who would have been relatively comfortable 20 or 30 years ago are struggling. They can't even buy a house or afford to have another child so I think that in that situation there can often be resentment of others who appear to have it all.

In terms of "privilege" I think, as other pps have said, you can have privilege in one part of your life while still having it tough in other areas.

Maybe op it'd be better to post this on south Asian MN? We have such a complex culture. Your parents would've raised you thinking they are doing their best. What the community thinks of them can be as important/ more important than your kids being happy. Love can be shown through food and keeping up with the joneses. The martyr complex is always present in some of our parents.

@Parkrunprom ,

No, bonus caps were brought in to discourage excessive risk taking (along with deferred bonuses, claw backs etc)

If you are a trader in 100k basic and 10% bonus, you are personally incentivised to make 10 million one year then lose 8 the following year, far more than to make a steady one million a year.

And, on a bank wide scale, 2008 wasn’t really a tragedy for a lot of employees and bank boards, even if they lost billions. They walked into the sunset rich, while those on 50k plus had to pay an increased tax burden for years to come to bail out the mess left behind.

It is that kind of wealth, that comes at the expense of others, that is rightly resented.

No I don’t think the UK begrudges success. Only bragging. We are not keen on that. We do love an underdog success story too.

I would however question the definition of success. I’d ask whether a traumatic childhood that lead to damaged mental health in adulthood should be classed as success, no matter the end salary earned.

Once heard a man say that true success is if your adult children choose and want to spend time with you. So I’d say one man’s success does not match another’s.

This mentality has completely manifested itself in this society now. Begrudging high earners and at the same time living on their dime. More than 50% of people in this country and are net takers, while the number of net contributors is plummeting. Then squealing about there not being enough freebies. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Gun, foot, clean shot.

Yes it does.
Many brits will not understand why your parents made the sacrifices they did.

The UK is still a great place to live but it does not welcome success. Look at the tirage against Rishi for paying 500K in tax, he is a success but is criticised for it. The average tax payment from a worker in London - the highest taxed is just over 10K so Rishi is paying the equivalent of 50 average Londoners.

No becuase I come from a similar background and this isnstill very much the norm with my peers to do what you can to ensure your child has the best education for them.

Little Britain mentality is a real thing. People thinking small and begrudging other people their success. If you look back at history, it must have something to do with the fact that while a select few were out building an empire and bringing back untold riches, those left behind on this small island were happy to live on scarps with the their factory jobs, terraced houses and once a week baths with shared water.

The class system extends beyond just family wealth. There is an intellectual divide too. Between a small minority who are go getters and the crabs in the bucket who would rather keep pulling everyone down than get out there themselves.

You should read the threads where anyone who has more than 30p in savings and has the audacity to come along and ask advice on investing being told how they insensitive they are and how they should read the room. The you get people slated on here for having a cleaner because ‘why can’t you clean yourself?’.

I think many people here will not understand your experiences and the pressures placed on 2nd and 3rd generations of immigrants in many communities by parents and extended family. I have seen it from within my own family and very frequently in my job.

Parents have given up everything, made huge sacrifices for their children and sometimes really struggle to understand why they do not seem to appreciate the opportunities they never had. The children just want to be like their peers, often from the age of 4 they are sent to extra classes on top of school. I regularly deal with referrals for physical chastisement against very young children, who do not want to do an extra hour of homework on top of keystage one every night which has been set by their Saturday schools.

Whilst having empathy with the parents (often the mother is the harshest critic of their daughters), the concept of childhood is usually quite alien and they are frustrated that thr child otes not appreciate the opportunities they are offering. This is from a place of being able to look back as an adult but in reality their early life experinces are so far removed from their child's they struggle to understand their views. There is often then generational trauma to add into the scenario because these families have settled here for a good reason. On top of that they are often in the worst accommodation in the roughest parts of the city.

success / high salaries is absolutely resented in this country. Take the cap on bankers bonuses. Investment bank employees pay every penny of PAYE income tax due. When you factor in some employer / employee NICs the majority of any bonus paid is paid to HMRC not the employee, yet people think uncapped bankers bonuses = bad. Think of the lost tax revenue due to the cap. The cap is just there because otherwise some people’s mind would blow with the jealously.

I cannot believe some of the comments on this thread. Yes, of course it's upsetting for the OP to be told that she had a 'privileged' upbringing when she was an abused child.

To those saying "It can't have been that bad if you're still in touch with your parents" - Jesus Christ. Have a word with yourself.

Some thoughts:

1. Private school is now three times as expensive as it was in the 80s/90s.

2. Yes, many people in the UK (and other countries) like cutting people down to size, but

3. I don't believe that the calling people priviledged thing is a particularly British phenomenon. It seems to me to have originated from the American online left about ten years ("check your privilege" etc). It had its uses but it is also a very blunt instrument. It's very classic online leftism - a word has been taken and the meaning sublty changed, and now the not-so-online are confused. The result is you have a, say, white or middle-class person who had a horrible upbringing being called 'privileged' and they don't really understand why. In some contexts, the word no longer means what it used to mean.

I think the OP is confusing 2 and 3.

I suppose the OP's predicament is similar to how an impoverished white person might feel when being told they have 'white privilege'. Do they have certain protections, in the West, from being white? Yes. Are they, in general, 'privileged'? No. Are they now confused? Possibly.

OP - I'm sorry to hear about your upbringing, it sounds shit. If you haven't had any, then counselling/therapy might be something worth looking into.

(edited for spelling!)

Yes it’s getting to a point you have to apologise for having anything you’ve got of your arse and worked for

I went to a state school and then oxbridge. I work in a profession though not a lucrative one. I'm absolutely privileged in that sense. I also have experienced abuse, i was a very anxious teenager and I'm now a widow in my 30s. But I was able to use my privilege. I was a nice well spoken middle class woman when I was dealing with police and the medical profession and they were more inclined to trust me. I could ring up uni friends who are barristers and lawyers and call in favours. Privilege doesn't mean happy, it just means doors were opened for your that others cannot reach. I now have a surprisingly degree of financial security but at the cost of watching my husband drink himself to death. it's a privilege to have that money and not everyone in my circumstances. Your pain is valid and I hope you find more peace but you absolutely are privileged in other ways.

OP, does it matter? You've been privileged in some ways and not in others – like lots of people. I was privileged, fee-paying school, grew up in a lovely house. But my family is quite dysfunctional and I found that really hard growing up. It's all very complicated, but the long and short of it is, none of it is easy.

You didn't choose where you went to school, and you are dealt the cards you're dealt. One of my closest friends went to private school but has had adoption trauma and cancer in his lot. A colleague went to one of the most expensive schools in the country but lost his father to a heart attack at a young age. At a certain point in life, it's not a case of having a load to carry or not, it's more which bits will make up your specific mix of burden. Don't add to the load by giving too much headspace to what other people think.

It's... in the title? You jumped into a conversation.

@Tiffanyis is spot on IMO, OP has been through a lot but the only person who can change how she feels about that going forward is herself.

I suppose I just don’t see the necessity. This is something that op is obviously finding triggering and I just don’t understand why there is this insistence on labelling someone as better or worse off than someone else, particularly when they are obviously hurting, Many people have suffered a traumatic experience of private/boarding school. They may have had a first class education but I wouldn’t say they are privileged and I wonder how they would feel reading this thread.

I lost my dad young and a friend with a single mum said to me that I was lucky because my dad loved me and her loss was much worse as her dad abandoned her. In fairness, as an adult I can see that she was absolutely right. I am the most privileged person I know and was blessed to have two wonderful parents who loved me and wanted the best for me. I still look back and think that there was no need for her to actually say that to someone who was feeling low. I suppose I feel the same way about the op.

@Snowsp you said it was embarrassing that I was unable to make the connection between an attitude that admires success and accompanying cultural and social inequality in the USA but there is no such connection.

You have to be pretty wealthy now, there is no question of that.

Also, the person who said only the super rich can send their children to private school is wrong.

Maybe not super rich but the costs of fees now and housing plus wage stagnation means that the parents who pay for private school are very different from the ones of my youth.