Does the UK begrudge success?

I do admire people who have got out of adversity or achieved great things.

But i do believe there are lots of peoole who would base policy on the fact some can, therefore all could, therefore its your own fault if you cant.

Im a bit sensitive about disability as my son has asd which in his case is a disability and there is quite a strong movement to rebrand it a difference and I get lots of people telling me things like elon musk has aspergers so my son could do x, y, z

But also lots of people like you who have compassion too so cant imagine others arent so nice. But having my son opened my eyes to the others.

I hear you OP. I grew up financially secure and went to private school but I was not the only miserable child there with parents who didn’t give a shit about them.

I accept and am grateful for the privilege that I had, but I resent that people who grew up with less financial security but with much more love and emotional security can’t seem to do the same. Having a secure family that loves you provides much more advantage than private school does, but people fail to recognise that and assume that the private school kid automatically had a good childhood when it’s just not true.

How disingenuous, referencing the five richest families in the UK doesn't change the fact that third of the land in England and Wales remains in the hands of the aristocracy. The worth of a hereditary title has nearly doubled since the 2007 financial crisis, now standing at more than £16m, much of this has been on a rapid incline over the last 40 years- financial deregulation of the 80s afforded many opportunities for investing and asset management. This is the inescapable truth and knowing the exploitation and hardships that many endured to facilitate this hereditary wealth, does go some way to explaining the resentment, many of us will have relatives that facilitated this lifestyle, my Great, Great Gran for example, was a maid at 14, living away from home in one of these stately homes, day in, day out faciltating the lifestyles of those with hereditary wealth. Much of Britain's land is owned by these families, it is private property that we cannot use or walk upon without permission. Yes, the 40 years post second WW went far in levelling up wealth but the economic and political structures that fuelled those changes were on the decline from the 1980s and we are now returning to the Victorian era of inequality.

Even when you look at broader patterns of wealth, in this country wealth begets wealth particularly over the last 40 years, the self made has lots of safety nets in place that have all made that possible. In the UK, in 2024, it is a pretence that 'success' in terms of wealth, is a manifestation of wholly hard work and risk taking, it simply isn't, so yes, I think people do resent the selling of this mythical notion!

There are some who are undoubtedly born into giant privolidge eg the royals etc . Unimaginable wealth and opwning of doors, smoothing of paths.

However sadly the aspiration to strivers are being targeted by those too ignorant to see nuance. Consequently the UK is increasingly full of woke-ist who want the lifestyle without having to do any hard work.

When it doesn't come to them they take out their envy on those who have made it, hiding behind catcalls of "privilege ", as it makes them feel better about their decision not to go the hard yards to improve their circumstances

@Spendonsend this is also a criticism of the Paralympics, some feel that it implies that anyone can potentially overcome a disability with the right attitude. But do people really think like this? There are plenty of people born with every single privelege in life who end up as monumental failures after all.

Personally I do think it’s right to reserve a special kind of admiration for those who manage to overcome terrible adversity but at the same time have I nothing but sympathy / empathy for those who don’t or can’t.

I dont begrudge success but i am a bit nervous about the idea that some individuals being succesful from difficult circumstances means all individuals from difficult circumstances can replicate that success -particularly by just working hard. The thought that often follows that idea, is that we can just not help people at the bottom, theres no need to pay people a decent salary as they could just live a bit overcrowded and then their grandkids can get great jobs.

But it just isn’t true that most of the wealth in the UK is “in the hands of those gifted it in 1066”. The five richest families in the UK are all either immigrants or started from nothing (Hinduja’s, Jim Ratcliffe, Blavatniks and Reubens). There’s not toff in the top 10 although the Duke of Westminster is no. 11. In the top 60 there are only 2 landed gentry family (including the Duke of Westminster).

@Crikeyalmighty - in south Asian - Indian/ Pakistani/ Bengali culture yes there is the expectation that if your son does well financially he will look after his parents. Often parents will live with their sons.
My parents live with and are financially dependent on their son but have never taken a penny from their daughters, they've paid for our education and weddings as is the cultural expectation, but would not even allow me to pay for their lunch now.

They paid for their daughter's education so we would have financial independence from our husbands .

The fact that most of our wealth, and land, is in the hands of the same families gifted it in 1066 is a pretty good indicator of where some resentment might come from.

This is absolutely crucial I think and not focusing on it is one of the most damaging aspects about all of the "I am less privileged than you" hierarchy of victimhood that identity politics has brought about.

In a capitalist society, money = power. In a capitalist society where currency has been downgraded (via quantitative easing etc) assets= money + even more money than anyone can earn. And then, power and further power.

Focusing on who owns what and how they got it is not distasteful or unseemly - it's necessary. The people who have skewed the levers to benefit themselves would like us all to think that doing so is envy or resentment or some such thing - anything other than have us asking questions.

It is very hard for those not from the same background to understand, but I married a second-generation immigrant from a fairly similar background and I get it.

What several people on this thread are overlooking is the additional stress of also being of a minority ethnicity in spaces like private education, universities or the professions, which are largely dominated by middle class white people.

My DH is now a very high earner and these days we must look as if we have always lived the dream, but it really isn’t the case.

Nor will he ever, ever stop striving.

Blimey some right 'Thatchers children' on here- us more mature posters will know what I mean. I think many people need to actually experience some shit in life to get them off their high horse- like the poor poster on another thread who has found her H has gambled all their savings and also got £130k debt. Life isn't always linear- people who often work really hard can lose it in a jiffy- covid showed that, you couldn't really predict or insure for that. Husbands and wives can leave, chronic illness can rear its head. Not everyone doing very nicely thank you is there by pure 'hard work' - just as not all people struggling are feckless lazy bastards.

If it bothers you, why would you choose to disclose your education? Hardly a topic anyone would bring up if first met, and for those you are closer to, you can give them the full version of your life story

Tired soundbites, no substance.

Covid proved nothing. Other than the fact that you can manipulate stupid people to stand outside their houses banging pots and pans once a week. And that they’ll do it with evermore vigour and enthusiasm if you give them free money in the shape of furlough. Those same people then squeal like idiots about the cost of by living when they need to pay for all the money printing through the nose due to inflation. Furlough wasn’t free money after all.

@mummyofhyperDD is there an expectation in Indian culture though that if the children do very well then they will look after their much poorer parents, so it's in their interests to make sure the kids do damn well- I don't think that expectation is taken as given in British non south Asian culture.

Huh? What are you talking about. That’s how the economy works. Money moving around. We are services based economy mostly selling financial services.

I've commented on this before but my mum came from a very rich family, privately educated but had no access to her parent's money (couldn't afford bras, underwear, basic necessities, sanitary pads etc - and her parents wouldn't let her have them) and regularly went without any food. She was on a special plan with the doctors because she was so horrendously under weight.

BUT she came from a very rich, privileged family. That is still true. Doesn't mean she didn't experience abuse. Two different things.

It is all comparative, isn't it. Noone can pay school fees on a moderate salary. They may consider themselves to have a moderate salary, but if they have the money to pay school fees, they are indeed mega rich

I don't agree with this at all. I have a few friends on moderate salaries who send kids to private. They forego new cars and holidays and generally don't waste money, very like OP's upbringing.

Certainly not 'super rich'.

A majority of 'net takers' was always going to happen when society facilities wealth aggregating into fewer and fewer hands. We're now in a situation in the UK where the top 1% own more wealth than the bottom 70% (and around 26% of total wealth), so why would you expect there a more equal divide of contributions? If you want that you need to redistribute wealth so that more people can contribute to the system equally.

Also when you talk about 'net takers' you're only considers monetary contributions and not societal ones. As covid proved many 'net takers' are fundamental to society and without them none of these 'net givers' would have a hope in hell of being wealthy.

As for the OP's question I don't personally begrudge success, I might even be considered successful myself by some (or maybe not) but what I do begrudge is:

1. Successful people who try to pull the ladder up behind them or who try to stop others being successful.

2. Successful people who have built their wealth on the backs of others and don't share the rewards fairly.

3. Successful people who think they deserve their success and have achieved it through their 'hard work' alone.

@Alcyoneus and @Goldenbear ,

The idea that high earners are net contributors is just way too simplistic. It totally depends how the money is made.

Some of the highest earners are senior managers in betting companies. Sure they pay a lot of tax but all of the money they are paid is generated by others’ losses. So they might pay £450,000 on their £1,000,000 of income, but that income merely came from effectively taxing others £1,000,000, so they have not in fact made any positive contribution to the economy.

I think a lot of finance works this way. Banks sell unneeded products to individuals and companies and charge high fees to do so. Of course, the bankers pay massive tax, but at the expense of the businesses and people who now pay less tax as they have made a net loss on the products,

This is easier to see when you look at a gambling company than a bank, say, as a bank does also bundle up the useless parasitic stuff with some useful and necessary stuff, but there have been lots of academic studies (on M&A say) which show that it is net wealth destructive.

It is way too simplistic to say I get paid a lot, so I am helping society.

In not 'on'.

Talk about a poor grasp on basic economics! It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic at the same time.

I went to school in a deprived area and the schools main function was to teach the kids just enough, so they could go on to work in the surrounding factories.
One of my classmates went on to be a Premier league star. I don't begrudge it in the slightest. Similarly, some of my other class mates have gone on to have success in other fields and I've done well in properties. If anything, I get a sense of pride when I see people from our cohort have done well for themselves. I've never begrudged success.
I think what you're describing would have people from my home town rolling their eyes. They too lived in small homes and never had holidays or much else, but they also went to a shit school and knew the best they could come out with would be a few GCSEs if they were lucky and very little prospects. Most of them are now too busy just surviving on low wages and getting from week to week, to begrudge the success of a medical consultant. I don't know how much sympathy they would have for your story of poverty either.

Maybe op it'd be better to post this on south Asian MN?

^This. Some pp just won’t get it.

I’m a POC with a mixed background with Indian heritage.

Grew up working class on a Council estate. Both parents worked. DH has a similar background. We put ourselves through Uni. DH owns multiple businesses.

We’ve had to create our own wealth to pass down to future generations.

Understanding Colonialism is the key.

I would say I'm similar, though went to state school, my mother was v well educated from India and pushed up hard and both children ended up at top unis. My parents bought property as each lost their jobs.

But I've experienced no backlash as a consequence. I'm very private about my life and so people don't see anything of me to think im priveliged.

I think I am , as I had amazingly loving parents and bought my house at 25 and am reasonably OK off.