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Settlement in divorce . Will this be enough for the children?

82 replies

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:04

Thanks for reading.
I'm heading into settlement talks and
Will meet my solicitor next week. We have three teens and live outside UK so all third level ed, medical, dental, orthodontic fees are payable.
Currently all three kids live with me.
They have no relationship with their dad as they don't want that despite much encouragement from me.
He pays mortgage on the home the children and myself live in.
This, aswell as equiv of £40 per week is maintenance.
I work full time. I was main earner and financed and supported him to climb the ladder for 16 years.
He is now self employed and very successful.
I had two substantial inheritances in the marriage which I put straight into the family.
He had his weekly wage.
I have a share in a family home and a pension. Worth a bit, not a huge amount. Have another fifteen years to retirement.
He has suggested us selling the family home ( that I'm in and he pays mortgage on in lieu of maintenance ) and splitting equity after mortgage sum is subtracted approx £40k. He has offered me
£20k cash to get half of equity.
He has said he will pay maintenance cash then thereafter .
Equity will be approx £300k.
He is hiding money and has refused to acknowledge receiving papers that have been served .
Now on paper this sounds good but truth he is, he cannot be trusted. He is a cheat, a liar and has not paid the big spends ... ed, medical etc despite promising to do so.

He says he will no 'go after' my pension or share of other house if I agree to this.

Two children have SN ALSO, for context and third child is currently in UNI and he has refused point blank to pay anything. This has cost be £ 10k so far this year.
Is this enough to provide half of children's expenses until they are educated in your opinion? Would you accept this .

OP posts:
fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 18:49

Ah that's great , thanks again for your responses . You've been so helpful.

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 18:48

21 day warning letter on Friday so that she can issue a motion. I'm not even sure what that means tbh.

If he doesn't submit his documents or engage a solicitor to correspond on his behalf, the matter can go before a judge to adjudicate, without him.

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 17:22

I will be able to buy him out when the house in which I have a share is sold along with a bit of a loan which I can manage.

I need to remember what he is capable
Of so perhaps going for equity is best ? I do not trust that he will pay a cent in maintenance once the ink is dry on the court order and I certainly will not be paying more money to go back to court over and over to seek what's rightfully, the children's expenses .

He fully expects 50/50. I would have thought that a judge would laugh him out of court for that presumption?
What a system!!!

OP posts:
fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 17:15

Thanks . That's so much information and I'd be lying if I didn't say I was confused but appreciate it.
To clarify, I've submitted all my affidavits, signed the needful for civil bill issue etc. all my paperwork is in.
She sent him the necessary papers threee weeks ago and he's ignored them.
She's sent him another 21 day warning letter on Friday so that she can issue a motion. I'm not even sure what that means tbh. Any idea ? I' d like to know before I meet her .
What does issuing a motion mean? Is that the court date . Or a motion to proceed? She knows i want this over asap as it's been dragging on and now that I have a child at uni that he is refusing to contribute towards, I need action asap .

OP posts:
fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 16:53

Thanks. I'm looking forward to reading all these replies soon. I am
Out at the moment

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 16:47

@ChimneyPot

That is a very unusual situation. My ex put me through hell in the 10 years it took to get to court. He was unreliable, paid erratically, never (not once in a decade) contributed to medical or educational costs.

If you are prepared to go into the witness box & give evidence (something most judges strongly discourage unless there is a massive gulf in positions), you can bring up such matters.

Otherwise the judge will look at a) each set of affidavits b) the offers from each side c) housing, maintenance, pensions and educational / medical costs. That's it.

In OP's case, as far as the judge will be concerned, her ex has a history of paying regularly. It doesn't matter if it is the mortgage or maintenance, unless the payment is tiny. It's the same difference.

In terms of a forensic accountant, they exist but you'll pay a lot and for what? If her ex hasn't disclosed financial details, the case won't proceed to court anyway. For very HMWA individuals, perhaps.

My ex left gaping holes in his statements (where he got bonuses) and it wasn't taken into account at all.

Ultimately the maintenance I got was outwardly good (and certainly compared to the UK!) but as he never sees them (again, not taken into account, as he said he wanted to but I prevented it, a Section 32 report found in my favour but proposed counselling for him, he agreed so judge said after counselling, he would then see younger DC every second weekend) and won't pay towards medical etc costs (he is ordered to do so; so far hasn't, yes I can take him back to court eventually but it's more money & stress) it's not as good as it looks.

Unless you've directly experienced an analogous situation in the Irish courts be v careful what you advise. I've lived this for a decade now so I am well-used to it. It's a horror show.

ChimneyPot · 11/02/2024 16:17

ChimneyPot · 11/02/2024 15:26

You need a good solicitor and a forensic accountant if there is a lot of cash.

i know someone who got all of the equity from the house because she could show her children’s father had a history of hiding assets and would be unreliable paying child support.

This is Irish advice

EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 16:09

Final one for now - settlement talks can take place ahead of court, between the legal team, which might give a basis for agreement.
But it can all change on the day anyway and the judge will order talks when you go into court as a first step.

So don't expect to agree anything necessarily before your court date.

You will be waiting up to a year for that.

If you've other questions I'm happy to try answer them.

EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 16:07

And you also need all the vouching information, which is laborious - statements for all accounts, loans, credit cards, your payslips, pension statements and so on.

If you are saying he has no legal representation, and has not exchanged documentation, it won't get near court, as the clerk will not approve for listing without all that info.

Simply put, he'll eventually need a solicitor.

EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 16:05

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:50

Thanks. I didn't realise this . I was led to believe that the laws are quite similar . I've filed everything

Do you have a court date OP?

It would be unusual to file the Affidavits (and this is done by the solicitors, not you) until you do. You have to have them dated and with relevant information (salary, earnings, spending etc) for the latest 6 months.

So you don't file them until close to the court date, as otherwise they'll be out of date & you'll need to file them again.

EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 16:02

Equity will be approx £300k

That's pretty huge.

How much is the mortgage now? Can you afford it?

He will be asked to pay maintenance - the maximum is €2000 pcm

If he's paying the mortgage at present, perhaps the amount is similar to what he might pay in maintenance?

The other issue with that equity is that you'll probably have to pay him a sizeable amount of money to effectively 'buy out' his interest. Can you access that? (At least €120k, could be much more).

EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 15:58

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:50

Thanks. I didn't realise this . I was led to believe that the laws are quite similar . I've filed everything

The legal basis is but the way it's done is not.

I've given you some headline points in my next post! I'll come back to this later.

I went through hell to get divorced so happy to share my experience / answer questions.

EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 15:56

Some guidance, Ireland-based.

  1. If he doesn't see the kids, it's very likely a section 32 will be ordered. Certainly if he gets legal representation (which I'm certain he will, in the end) they will look for this. This is also known as a Voice of the Child report, and is both expensive, and stressful.
  1. Regarding what you / he paid during the marriage, it will be irrelevant unless you go into court & give evidence (usually discouraged unless there's a very big difference in earnings / what you both want / assets.
  1. The judge will review the Affidavit of Means, and Affidavit of Welfare from you both & make suggestions on that basis, and will encourage settlement talks on those suggestions.
  1. You may have to attend court more than once. If you are not listed first, you very often won't have your case heard. I had to wait nearly a year after my first court date for a listing where our case was first
  1. The judge will not order the sale of the family home for such little equity.
  1. However you then need to either examine if you can take over the mortgage & buy him out - unless you are very highly paid this is almost impossible. Maintenance won't be considered income, and the 3 DC will count as 'negative' points on the rating by banks.
OR You can agree to a deferred sale when the last DC finishes education (I'd advise against this as you may find yourself homeless in a short few years, given how difficult accommodation is to source / afford in Ireland). OR (usual option) You buy him out based on current equity - that can be negotiated. He will still stay on the deeds, but will be indemnified against any payments for the mortgage or profits when sold. I did this. I had to give him a sizeable amount of money (which I had to borrow) but it was worth it for the security.

The divorce system in Ireland is pretty dreadful. It's very hard to have your voice heard or any nuance understood.

You can get lucky with solicitors & barristers but it's rare.

Making your DC security and yours the priority.

Luckydog7 · 11/02/2024 15:56

A few things to consider. If he runs a business is this not half yours? Is it the kind of business that has any material value that you could negotiate with?

Check if there is a consequence to him paying the mortgage instead of maintenance. Will this effect ownership or distribution of equity down the line.

Boomer55 · 11/02/2024 15:52

If you live outside the UK, then advice about the UK is irrelevant. You need to seek advice where you are.

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:50

Thanks. I didn't realise this . I was led to believe that the laws are quite similar . I've filed everything

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 11/02/2024 15:43

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:38

Our laws are quite similar. In fact many of them in divorce laws are based largely on UK laws.

OP, having just gone through a divorce in Ireland, the systems in Ireland and UK are worlds apart. You're mistaken.

BoohooWoohoo · 11/02/2024 15:42

if you were in the UK I would tell you to search online for a Child maintenance calculator. That’s how much you ex would pay you each month.
I would then warn you that self employed people can use clever accounting to make it look like they earn very little. you need to confirm what it’s like in your country. Do companies publish profits and income online ? I realise that he might be hiding income from whoever collects tax but it’s a start.

With regards to the mortgage payments, how can you trust him to continue paying ? If you wanted to sell then you’d owe him 50% or whatever of the equity which is delaying the housing issue to a later date. You might earn more in future but you might not be able to work as many hours.

This is why you need local legal advice about the safest course of action to take bearing in mind what you know about your ex.

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 11/02/2024 15:38

Have you or your solicitor filed all of your forms with the court (affidavit of means and the rest)?

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:38

Our laws are quite similar. In fact many of them in divorce laws are based largely on UK laws.

OP posts:
BoohooWoohoo · 11/02/2024 15:32

It’s difficult to give advice because you don’t live in the UK and divorce laws vary around the world.

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:28

This is the issue..
I don't trust him in any way.
He has shown himself to be a liar a cheat and untrustworthy. He has no time for kids unless one of his relationships falls apart for a few days and then he's looking for the kids to go for lunch or a drink.

OP posts:
ChimneyPot · 11/02/2024 15:26

You need a good solicitor and a forensic accountant if there is a lot of cash.

i know someone who got all of the equity from the house because she could show her children’s father had a history of hiding assets and would be unreliable paying child support.

fortheloveofcase · 11/02/2024 15:22

Living in Ireland.
So far, papers have been served three weeks ago . He says he won't be engaging a solicitor . He didn't respond at all so solicitor has sent him papers which give him 21 days to respond.
He text with that offer and. Said it's non negotiable and his final offer!
He said if I don't agree he will go for my pension and share of house .
I've submitted eveything.

OP posts:
Candleabra · 11/02/2024 15:19

I’d be very surprised if his pension is only worth £5k. Did he tell you that?
It’s a terrible offer regardless.

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