To ask why do people not working claiming FSM get this for free?

There are always families who play the system (hopefully it’s getting harder to do so).

Two of the families on FSM that I know have new clothes, quite a few gadgets BUT their children might look well dressed in decent clothes but they won’t leave our town for any of the holidays, they do nothing more than watch TV/phones, possibly play with a few toys. One of these families told me they’d started taking their child out recently and they were really proud of themselves, when I questioned it they said to the car park round the corner for a run around (despite having a park 10 minutes away). It’s hard to get across the depth of these difficulties and the lack of opportunities some of these children have.

I have honestly worked with families where holiday provision has prevented their children ending up in foster care.
Those of you saying your children are also hard done by, I'm sure you can appreciate this is a different level of need we're talking about here.

You. Can't. Choose. Not. To. Work.

The only two people I know who have fsm have abused the system for years. Both could work, both chose not too. One lives off child and spousal maintenance in a paid for house as part of divorce 16 years ago.
The child is now at sixth form and school buy all their clothes from a hardship fund, fsm, half term activities and a hamper of food on special occasions along with vouchers during holidays.
They went abroad for Xmas, have had big holidays and yet continue to choose not to work and take all the free stuff.
I never qualified and had to pay for school meals and breakfast and after school club. Absolutely understand for those that need it but this person never has.
I believe they now have to look for work but it's a bit late now the child is about to leave education (and no sen at all, no reason not to work)

Once you have been granted free school meals you continue to be eligible , even if your income rises.

I know children who are from well off families that made a claim in a temporary period of unemployment but continue to be on the pupil premium for the whole of their time at school.

*based on minimum wage, should I say. You can work less hours than that if your income is higher than NMW.

It’s the cost of living and the pressures on low/middle earners that is making things so hard. I know where you’re coming from OP - we are ‘lucky’ to be homeowners and to be able to afford activities for our kids, but that’s come at the expense of so many sacrifices and so much hard work. The cost of living is so high at the moment that it’s just constant stress. It’s hard not to be envious when we see people we know on benefits getting so much paid for - I know one who claims every benefit going, gets all housing paid, she doesn’t work and is constantly posting online about their holidays, travel etc (things that we can’t afford). I admit, when I’m knackered from working 6 days a week and stressing about paying the bills, I do feel envious. The problem is in low pay and the high cost of living making a life on benefits look appealing - it really shouldn’t.

UC rules for people who think you can "choose" not to work. Minimum of 30 hours for ages 3-12, 35 for age 13+. If someone has a child between these ages and is not working and claiming, they will need to have a reason for doing so such as a disability.

What??!!!

The children I know who are on free school meals have a great, loving, warm home life. Just because their parents are struggling on benefits, doesn’t mean they’re not able to provide a loving home.

What an awful, judgemental post.

Absolutely true. But. proportionately, children on FSM do have some kind of home situation. Which often ties into why the household income is so low. Some of the things causing low income (less then £7400 earned a year) could be unwell/disabled parents, parents with caring responsibilities, trauma/abuse/escape from abuse, addiction...I could go on. Lower income can mean less space at home, shared bedrooms, no where to play, no toys, no where to study or revise at home.

The issues triggering eligibility for FSM could be short term. Or long term.

Whatever the issue, history has shown that statistically children from poverty have less social mobility than others. They do lesswell at school, go on to earn less themselves. The circle of life.....So, in order to make some steps to redress that social mobility there is the FSM criteria.

So a child from a household where the parent has been up all night caring for their SEN sibling, will still get a meal, even though the parent has not been able to find the time (let alone the money) buy anything for the cupboards or make a packed lunch. So the child will be flagged to the school when revision resources are being offered to students, and parents will not be asked to pay for 8 or 9 different sets of CPG guides - as the parent uses so much of their income on taxis to hospital appointments for their sibling and their single parent cannot work due to caring responsibilities.

Before school and after school clubs are not universally free for FSM students. It will be on a school by school basis. The school will look at it's cohort and decide if this will benefit the children. And direct some of the FSM funding towards it.

If it could just hugely, hugely benefit say 10% of FSM children how could anyone begrudge it, just because they themselves have to pay? If you take yourself out of your own little world, think of that child :
who is motivated to get to school as it means they will actually get breakfast
whose parent(s) see the value in getting them there early as it is one less meal to provide
have a safe, calm start to the school day
have an after school haven where they can do homework, play, runaround, study for an hour - what kids should be doing - which FSM often do not have the home to do.

Really? How could you begrudge this?

Yes, some FSM children will have parents playing the system who can provide all this. But really that is a DailyFail-eque trope. The majority of FSM children have a fucking tough time of it. However loving/caring their parents. It is fucking grim being on that low an income. Be hugely impressed by your school for being caring enough to offer it. Not whining about "it's not fair".

Did you survey the parents to find out why?

I don’t mean to pick you out, I’m only asking as there must be a reason why they don’t access it and I (maybe naively) refused to believe that the maj of FSM parents have no aspiration for their kids.

For 1 it would mean not having to look after them for the day.

Many good meaning folk make assumptions on what poor ppl need for access without actually asking them.

You can't choose not to work. I'm a single parent getting UC and cannot choose not to work, I'm required to work a minimum of 35 hours a week.

The funny thing is, the benchmarks for getting public assistance was higher pre 2010, ppl voted for benefits to be slashed because of benefit porn poverty shows and why should they get something for free.

They slashed benefits and also decreased thresholds and now you have some folk who voted for this complaining that x gets something they don’t.

I rem a woman on QT complaining to a Tory MP that she voted for them to slash benefits but then they cut her WTC…..

I can’t quite beleive what I’m reading, to be jealous of people whose income is so low they need free school meals and them to declare they aren’t struggling and get a new toy every week.

😱

You can’t just choose not to work under UC - they are actually very strict. To not have work commitments you either have to be on LCWRA or have a child in receipt of dla so you are classed as a carer - do those not being pushed and sanctioned by UC to work will be having a very difficult life indeed and need all the support they can get

@MrBanana it might not include income from benefits but imagine how little you have in the first place if your income is less than £7.5k a year. Universal credit will obviously mean they've got more money than that - enough to actually live on - because, let's face it, you're not living on £7.5k a year. Imagine the shit situation you're in if your ANNUAL income is in four figures.

@GKD yes, totally agree on addressing the barriers to access and we’ve offered flexibility on day, offered free places to siblings (not just fsm child). site in easy walking distance of school, so no travel costs to consider - but still a very depressingly low take up.

so frustrating! Really want to be helpful and offer a genuinely good experience to all children, but it’s so depressing when the take up isn’t there from families who might have most need.

What's your point? Not everyone on benefits is on FSM, which is what the thread is about

They need breakfast and they need to be in school - that’s the reality and by offering a free club it will
get more kids in and fed and ready for a day of learning. They need that.

Yes, this is what I found also. My kids briefly qualified for the holiday clubs when they included ‘family impacted by covid’. I took my kids there, more for childcare and activities while we set up our new business after being made redundant. Hardly any children were there, despite it being a really good club. My friend who teaches locally said that, unfortunately the parents of children on FSM rarely take up these offers.

@zoom1982 oh gosh all these poor home owners having it so hard! If it was such a better and more secure prospect to live in rented accommodation for your whole life, no one would even bother to buy a house. It's stupid to try and make out that someone who has had that opportunity is worse off.

There you go, you don't need to do it. So stop moaning about those that do.

Again, that's not a given though. Not everyone needs care! 3 out of 4 of my grandparents are dead now and none ever needed care so they've all left assets to their children.

I don't need to do it thanks very much I don't even live in the UK and with the cesspit it's become doubt I'll be returning. No idea how good it is either though plenty of people seem to be content to do both.

Not in our area you can't.

I would love nothing more than to be able to work, but being a carer to a severely disabled child 24/7 who has toddler tantrums in a 13 year old body, is non verbal, still in nappies, keeps me up in the night etc etc is a job in itself.
I don't get any free child care and no respite either (single parent).