Best friend only wants to catch up with me (childfree) at kid-oriented venues

" About 80% of my time is usually spent watching or helping my friend parent her children"
unfortunately she is using you for help with childcare

I have DC. Admittedly they are grown now. But I have managed to keep my chiildfree friends of over 20 years. The idea that all mothers are interested in talking about baby led weaning is a bit suss to me, as my DC would say! I travelled with my children from the time they were 3 months old. I was no nappy changing hausfrau.

This! I have 2 young children and none of my friends' would entertain this. All their children have grown up now anyway as I'm an old fart mother! They would never want to meet at a park or child centred restaurant. And I m very grateful for that! You need more friends! X

@moomoomoo27 , I'm childfree too and I can relate to a lot of what you say. In theory, if a friend becomes a parent, everyone is supposed to be very kind and accommodating and supportive of each other, and your friendship is supposed to merrily roll along with a few easy adjustments.

In reality, that's just not what happens. It's more likely that the friendship as you know it is gone, and the kids are really all that matter. Of course the friend who is now a parent can't just pretend that the kids don't exist, and of course their life has changed hugely, but as the childfree friend, it's very hard to know where you fit in. You feel like you're expected to be grateful for having any of your friend's time or attention at all, and all on their terms. It really does put a stress on a friendship, no point pretending otherwise

But wherever I go, my kids go.

Does she take them to work wih her?

It does sound tedious, OP, but as she is an old friend, I’d put up with it for a few years, because this phase will pass.

Personally, I was always keen on child free meetups, but now mine are teenagers, every meet up is child free, they wouldn’t be interested in coming along. 😂 So you’ve got a few more years and then her children will refuse to come-or you’ll meet up at home and they’ll say hi and wander off. I think it’s worth hanging in there for a long friendship, I’ve done the same with my sixth form/uni friends, and it’s totally different now that our children are older.

I'm childfree and this thread is funny to me because literally 99.9% of mums act this way but are calling your friend out for it. I bet there are lots of people in this thread who arrange things with childfree friends and either a) turn up with their kids even though you arranged to not do that b) cancel or c) change the plans and make it about soft play or similar.

The advice is also wild, as if you can do anything with kids around. You can give them all the activities in the world and they will still want your attention every 3 seconds. Or if they're older they're listening to your convos and ask questions.

I've not had a proper in-person conversation with any of my friends with kids from the time they gave birth to now (the oldest being 11). Most of my friends, even good ones, I haven't even seen more than once or twice in many years because they don't make an effort and I'm tired of inviting people and it going nowhere or arranging plans that are cancelled last minute (you never know if it's an excuse or not), or people trying to bring their kids to an adult party or pub trip.

Even when we do have a convo it's all about pooping/sleeping/a problem at school. They never ask how you are or what you've been up to. I struggle to really relate to what they're saying and I really struggle to have long conversations about nappies or baby led weaning because I'm used to adult conversations on a whole different plain about business, or travel, or politics. I can't imagine my days being about placating a child because their ice cream is too cold, it would drive me up the wall.

It's a totally different world. A plan to do something is not a big deal to me because I do things whenever I want all the time, whereas for parents it's like a few hours every few months so it becomes a big deal.

Most of my friends are childfree and we arrange plans last minute (unless it's a specific holiday or birthday thing) and everyone just turns up or comes over.

You can make an effort but you have to be prepared to step back too, as over time you'll both get new friends that relate more to where your life is right now and even the longest friendships (one of mine was a school friend) just don't last.

No to that. Suggest something in the evening or lunch without kids. If she says no then just keep in touch by phone. If it fizzles out then so be it, friendship isn't about one person getting their own way 100% of the time.

my phone is a Samsung and can click in see all for ops posts

You sound very patient and invested in this friendship . Personally I’d think some time away from her children would be good for all of them . I’d possibly not make her a priority.

Im A parent & although I think every parent absolutely can chose how much time they want to spend with their children, I think she is being very selfish in your friendship. She is not considering your needs at all & that isn’t how friendships work, parent or no parent.

I think you need to talk to her (not text) call her when she’s not busy & say something like, I love you & your kids to pieces, and love spending time with you all, and your friendship is so important to me. However as I don’t have children of my own, although I’m very happy to meet at the park etc sometimes, I’d prefer if we could alternate meet ups to places where we can be more relaxed & have more time to catch up such as XYZ..

If she doesn’t get it from that then you could try asking her why & if she is struggling at all with parenting & is actually needing that support. That might be the case, in which case you could recommend for her to talk to her partner about getting her some part time support of a nanny or something because you just don’t have the capacity to do it all the time. Of course you’ll still want to part of the time because as friends we support eachother, but you can’t do that every time it needs to be 50/50.

if that’s not the case & she still refuses then you need to be firmer & say that it really needs to be a 2 way relationship, you both have needs & both should put in equal efforts to accommodate each others needs in the friendship, as that’s how friendships work.

If she still can’t see it from that then you can repeat it and emphasise the love you have for her but until she can meet you in the middle you’ll need to take a step back and prioritise your own wellbeing & happiness and leave an open invitation for if she ever changes her mind.

You do realise that you can reply with
"Sorry [her real name], but I am tired of having child-centred catch ups. I miss the times when we could have a chat over a meal or a glass of wine. I'm going to give these catch-ups a miss until your kids are older and you feel ready to leave them. Look forward to seeing you then - @PlaygroundSusie "

Or words to that effect.

I sympathise, I have a friend very much like this. Her husband is an arse though and as a result she ends up bringing the kids with her cause he is grumpy about doing what a dad should do. In addition her mother in law makes snide remarks such as 'Going out again?' if she dares socialise with people from work or do something for herself which is semi regular (maybe monthly?) but not like every week or anything. I feel bad for her marrying into such a backward and chauvinistic family.

I have built a positive relationship with her two kids and as I don't have many friends I just think beggars can't be choosers really. It's nice to see her, even with kids in tow, but sometimes they interrupt and say 'Mum Mumm stop ignoring me' when we are just trying to chat and catch up!

I thought it was a compromise because on this outing, we took it in turns to do what the other wanted. I wanted to go to a cafe, so we did. She and her kids wanted to go to the playground, and we did.

But her kids were still there!

"My kids would rather get out of the house and visit the playground."

Honestly she sounds bloody awful.

It's all her way!

Doesn't sound as if she wants to see you that much.

She sure ain't doing her kids any good being with them 24/7, they need space to grow and figure stuff out for themselves, and what about their relationship with Dad? Does he not deserve quality lone time with his kids?

You didn't go to a cafe - you sat outside with takeaway drinks. Presumably because she felt that was better for the kids.

OP do you realise that you are blocking any comments and suggestions that MNers are making in the same way that your BFF is blocking any suggestions you make to her about where and how to meet?

Yanbu.
You don't have to agree to this you know.
I bloody wouldn't and I've got kids!
They're adults now but bloody hell, a coffee with a friend isn't too much to ask no matter how young they are (assuming you can get childcare which you say isn't an issue as she's married)

She's being very selfish actually. It's all about her. Her wants. Her needs.

But that's not friendship.

If she can't give - her time, her attention, etc ever because the entire universe is expected to revolve around her kids - then how good a friend is she?

What if you needed her? Really needed her. Your friend. Needed just to be able to talk to her. Have her support? What would you get? Sorry you're going through a hellish time but I can't spend an hour just giving you a hug and listening to you because my kids must be with me at all times?

Childhood is short yes. But it's not that bloody short that you can't spend a bit of time with other people and give as well as take.

If I were you I'd stop going along with this and start declining these playdates.

I think your friend is making a mistake OP, as people have said her kids are going to grow up and lose interest in her, especially as she's making herself into a total bore, but you can't change her. It's one of those where I think you can still be friends but I wouldn't make her a priority.

I understand your friend wanting to cherish every moment with her children while they're still young, but she really needs to find a balance where she can enjoy some adult time with her friends (i.e. YOU!)
Family time is important to me and I LOVE spending time with my 2 year old DD, but I also appreciate time for me by going to the gym, going for a run or catching up with friends etc and letting my mum look after DD for a while.

Does your friend have support from her husband/partner or her children's grandparents? Could she get a babysitter now and again even.
Could you even meet up when the kids are at their clubs/activities?

How come it's always the daytime? Is she a single parent....? If she is I'd suggest going to hers after bedtime with a takeaway and a bottle of wine. If not, her husband can stay home with the kids and you guys can go for dinner or a drink somewhere, or she can go to you. I feel like if you're catching up in the daytime, she probably will have the children (even at weekends I like to spend my days with them because they're at school all week). The other option is (if she has childcare options) to suggest a grown up day, like a spa day or a sports event or the cinema and lunch and phrase it as "some time off for you and some adult conversation" so she sees it as a treat. I feel like because you arrange a cafe in the park in the daytime, she's sort of assuming you want to see the kids as well and that youre specifically inviting them (we all assume people find our kids riveting) - so you might just need to phrase it as "something just us" or "let's do something as adults to give you some time off and a nice break"

I think you are being very very reasonable OP. It sounds like your friend is a bit on the extreme end of the parenting spectrum. Some parents want to be with kids 24x7 and at opposite end some send kids off to boarding school and don’t see them for weeks on end. Most people are somewhere in the middle and would carve out some time to do stuff alone/ with partner/with friends while also carving out some time with just kids (often including 1:1 with each child). Obviously it’s fine for your friend to choose never to do things without the kids (though once youngest is in school maybe she may want to during day while they are both occupied) but it’s also fine for you to say no thank you to a meet up with the kids.
I personally think it also does kids no harm to have to spend some time doing stuff they enjoy a bit less. I sometimes met friends for a coffee in their lunch hour when mine were a toddler/baby and toddler just had to occupy herself doing a bit of colouring or a jigsaw or whatever for half an hour. I usually took 3-4 different activities as one thing only occupied her for 5-10 mins. I used to take both as babies to cinema or theatre sometimes and then out for dinner with us and they’d just sleep & feed in a sling. Maybe ask if their dad ever gets any nice 1:1 time with them and suggest he might enjoy that to see if that persuades her to come out without them for an hour

She sounds a) mad, and b) boring. What’s she going to do with her life when they’re both at school? Hide behind a bush in the playground?

To add, I know you say your friend doesn't go out in the evening but you don't frequent playgrounds. Say to her you really need some adult time.
She doesn't have to eat with her family at 5pm. She can sit with them and have a coffee whilst they eat if needs be parents do it all the time.

If you're meeting in daytimes, you're being unreasonable but if you express your need for adult time and she won't oblige ever then she is too.
Sounds like your friend suffers really badly with mum guilt and old do with a chat.