Best friend only wants to catch up with me (childfree) at kid-oriented venues

I find this odd. She wants to cherish every moment with her children so is inviting on meeting you are places where they will be overexcited, overstimulated and distracted. These places are semi-child care not quality family time. To me that's playing a game or puzzle as a family at the kitchen table or gently supervising play or arts and crafts at home, or going for a nature walk or picnic.

Are you sure it's not more a case of her children wanting to go to these places and her needing a hand to cope with them

Oh god! She never goes out without kids?! If she is a single parent, then fair enough otherwise there is no excuse! I would suggest to your friend to go at her place for cheese and wine after kids are in bed or ask her next time to go out for dinner once her kids are in bed. I have two kids myself and I strongly believe that it’s good to spend sometime away from them.

This! The friend's behaviour is telling the OP loudly and clearly that this friendship is not that important to her. I would let it drift, too.

'I think a lot of people now are having kids based on the cute social media pics they see of other people's and it's just not reality.'

Yes! Couldn't agree more. Lots of people just don't seem to have a clue what actual parenting involves. The kids don't just sit there looking cute and 'playing nicely' i.e. staying out of your hair!

Man, that would drive me crazy. I just find it frustrating when everything is child-centric.

I think with this friend you need to be very explicit and say "I don't want to spend a cold February afternoon in the playground. Can I come to yours instead?" I hate playgrounds and I have two toddlers! 🤣

I feel like there's often a lot of resentment there too.

I think a lot of people now are having kids based on the cute social media pics they see of other people's and it's just not reality.

And that adds a whole new dimension to it because there is so much to resent: I'm not struggling for money, feeling a lot of worry/guilt about my kids, or thinking that peeing or having a bath on my own is the best gift I can possibly imagine. I don't really know how to handle it because it's just a bit awkward when people are obviously envious...but the only difference is they chose to have kids.

I have some friends who were born to be parents and I'm in awe at how great they are, how patient they are, how great their relationships are with their kids. But the majority are regularly losing their shit in the supermarket, day drinking whenever they get the chance, cancelling plans, and endlessly blaming their other halves/parents/anyone they can think of etc rather than parenthood.

OP I think if you read mine and @familybythesea posts it gives you a very good comparison of how, at this moment, you and your friends needs and priorities are different. No one is right or wrong but it’s just you are both in such a different space at this moment. Doesn’t mean in a few years in can change and your friendship will be stronger again.

Could you suggest going over to hers for a takeaway (or similar) once the kids are in bed? Or see them all for a bit in the evening, help her put them to bed with say a story or something and then you guys can chat downstairs once they’re in bed?

Your friend is being selfish and inflexible, it’s not just the matter of refusing to spend any adult time with you because SHE wants to bring her kids, but she has the same approach to what time she eats, sleeps and how she spends her evenings, she’s telling you loud and clear that you aren’t worth her putting herself out, you have to fit in with everything she wants. She’s not behaving like a friend to you.

OP I get it. I hardly ever actually comment, but you kind of remind me of myself a few years ago with my ‘best friend’. She had kids, I didn’t, and for a long time I bent over backwards to fit in with her needs because I felt - at the time - they trumped mine due to her life being more complex/ full on. I felt selfish if I voiced that I wanted to be able to chat to her and have her full attention.
As time has gone on I have come to see that my need to people please - and in particular please this friend who was my oldest and ‘best’ friend - was making me unhappy. I was forever putting her first, and I eventually felt resentful that she never thought about me and how I might feel being surrounded by children all the time. We never had full conversations and she didn’t really know what was going on in my life beyond the superficial level. I couldn’t turn to her or get any support, despite endlessly offering support to her and her children. I felt incredibly sad, but I’ve let the relationship drift - I still remember the good times and she’s still a special person to me, but I’m not willing to only do things on her terms. People change and circumstances change - clinging on isn’t always healthy.
In your case, it boils down to whether she is a good friend to you NOW - not in the past, now. And if the answer is no, it doesn’t mean you have to cut her off but you might have to ask yourself some uncomfortable questions around whether you’re happy to wait until her kids are fully grown to have your needs met in the friendship.
If you still think that she is a great friend to you now, maybe you just have to accept the child-friendly locations for you getting together are part of the deal. You don’t sound happy though - a lovely, loyal friend - but not a happy friend. I hope you can find a way to make it work for you both.

There is no chance of having a proper conversation at a place like a soft play area or playground (or anywhere full of kids!). There is no way I would subject a childfree friend to that. Can she not meet you for an occasional glass of wine or dinner in the evening?

How about suggesting, "Let's go to the playground for an hour, then back to yours for coffee and catch up afterwards."

Although if this woman spends all her time with her kids, what does she actually have to talk about, apart from them?

When my children were small it was full-on. Dh was working all hours and one child was a bad sleeper. I breastfed for a long time and Dh needed to be alert for his job so the small hour jobs were all mine. There was a lot of new ‘mental load’ and I was worn out with the drudgery and bit overwhelmed with responsibility. However this was counteracted with the joy of the children. It was nice to get out with them as it gave me a bit of headspace.

I had a friend who has not got children. She wanted to talk about her relationship problems, her travels, her lack of money, her work problems. Her sentences all started with I.

Firstly, I didn’t much of any ‘I’ anymore. I was ok with that as I knew it was only going to be for a few years. So all the ‘me’ talk from my friend sounded irritating for lots of reasons. It’s so chaotic during the day having all that ‘mental load’ being responsible for little lives that I didn’t want or have the capacity to listen to anyone moaning about a life that I was envious about. Also my friend would want me to listen to her going on and come up with solutions like we used to do with each other. But I really couldn’t care about whether her latest holiday had been ruined bad weather. I would be listening thinking I would love to be in a bed that had sheets that I didn’t have to launder and no one to wake me up. Being able to just go to the loo without thinking about are 2 other people safe is a luxury. I didn’t care that she had moved desks at work. A career seemed so far away and unfulfilling yet so attractive to have money to spend on yourself without guilt. But I knew she had no concept on that so I listened. Also I was aware that my life was my kids. If I talked about my day it was always about them. And I knew she was bored about it because it sounded boring.

Unfortunately this friend is long longer my friend. I am really sad about it. I came out the other side of the intenseness a couple of years later and got back into work. She never had kids but sent me an email about how I didn’t go and see her once (300 miles away) in her flat and she always had to come and stay with me. In my defence I was breastfeeding, had 2 children in nappies and we had a pullout bed in the living room. She lived in a 1 bed flat. Dh couldn’t get time off work (self employed). How did she think it was going to work? When she came and stayed she complaining that she was woken at 8am (I had been up since 6am and trying to keep small children quiet for 2 hours who were excited to see her).

I wish I could have made my friend realise that it was not her or me - it was that are lives were so different at that point we had so little in common - but it would be better in a few years.

Unless my kids are paying the petrol, entry fee etc, then they dont dictate where we go and what we do im afraid.

And yes the mum looks forward to someone else running about after her kids not the catch up with the friend!

And yes with DH on the spectrum too, there was never anyone except me to look after the children. He couldn't really do it/didn't want to.

Is your friend neurodiverse because this speaks to me as someone on the spectrum that I can't cope with lots of conversations all at the same time with competing interests.

I have a dear friend who is childless and she waited 15 years for me to be properly free again and we went away last year for 2 nights which was amazing. She's very zen though and non judgemental.

I never ever asked her to come to the playground with me or out on days out but then she doesn't live close by. She may well have done. She was and is just a lovely wonderful person but I'm not one to take advantage and wouldn't use the words your friend has used. She sounds a bit manipulative.

I was similarly exhausted every night at 9pm.

You could maybe wait for the 3 year old to start school. She may have more free time to herself then and want to actually see just you!

But she may equally just be a time waster...

@LadyBird1973 I’m wondering the same, it could be some type of anxiety about leaving her children. I wonder whether her DH is even “allowed” to babysit?

Cross posted @LadyBird1973 !

Next time she says 'the kids would prefer to go to the playground' could you not say 'ok no worries, let me know when you're back and I'll pop round'?

Could you come at it from an "I'm worried about you" pov or is she a shoot the messenger type?

I have this. She does occasionally come out now in the eves as her children are older but I'm always made to feel guilty and that she's there only begrudgingly. She never wanted to miss meals with her children or doing bedtime. It was very hard work. And still is although she's getting better.

That said, I had a family crisis a while ago and she was a really good friend to me then. Came over, offers to help, chats on the phone. Would your friend do that for you if there was a real emergency?

I haven't read the whole thread, only your posts OP, but I'm wondering whether there's some anxiety around her kids that even she might be unaware of. Undiagnosed PND? It's not normal to subsume one's entire identity into being a mother and to refuse any activity that doesn't include them. The whole giving up wine thing because mothers don't drink is very odd.
Assuming all his normal re her mental health, she might come out of this when her dc are older - if you have the patience to wait that long! I'm not sure I would. I hated spending too much time in playgrounds with my own dc, let alone someone else's!

If you decide to put up with this for old times sake and in the hope that the real her eventually emerges, then I think you are right to pull back on being so helpful - have your coffee and a rest!
But it isn't normal imo and I don't think I could have done 7 years of it without saying "ffs, think about me for a change!"
You are a very good friend to her .

Tbh, it sounds like she has built up a sort of anxiety about leaving them, but is putting a front on it of "cherishing her time with them". I wonder if she catastrophises about what would happen to them if she wasn't there? And it has become harder to go out the longer she has left it. Did she find it difficult to leave them at nursery? Is she constantly expressing concerns about them at school or nursery or worries about them while they are there? Did she give up drinking because she worries about looking after them properly if she's had a glass of wine, or if she could get them to a doctor if they needed it?

Think some of the posters are being a little hard. I'd try the gentle approach of asking if you can come round in the evening and see what she says. Agree though with disengaging about how much of a second pair of hands you are.

If she won't budge on that, I'd leave it a bit and put the ball in her court to invite you to something, but say no if it doesn't suit you.

I have children and childfree friends and I'd consider a fair compromise meeting without the kids about half of the time. There is no compromise at all here.

hmmm @PlaygroundSusie I'm not sure I'd call sitting outside in winter in a noisy playground with a takeaway coffee 'going to a cafe' though! Brrrr ❄️