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AIBU?

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Original poster

If VAT is added on Private School Fees, then it will be added onto University fees as well

539 replies

AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 08:06

Does it worry you that this new policy of adding VAT on educational fees will also be applied to university fees as well?

AIBU to think this will put university out of the reach of the majority of families who will support their kids through Uni?

Also, for those who do go the level of debt they will come out with will be really big.

If they can apply VAT to private school educational fees then they've setup a case for Independent schools argue that it must be applied to Uni as well.

Is this going to create a situation where only the wealthy can send their kids to Uni?

I'm wondering why no one is asking this question!!

OP posts:
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18
Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:19

TheMadnessOfOfsted · 31/01/2024 12:18

Forgive my jumping in, but I can answer that question just by reading the thread.

Op already said she's a floating voter, so she doesn't consider herself a Conservative supporter and her political preferences have obviously changed over her lifetime.

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I missed that, thank you

twistyizzy · 31/01/2024 12:19

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:11

Honestly the idea that it might happen my accident is even more ridiculous. Look, I think politicians are useless at the best of times, but the notion that they’re going to introduce another £3bn of tax because they didn’t read the small print is preposterous.

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Well they didn't read the small print before declaring that they would remove charitable status did they?
That's why people are querying it because they seem to announce flagship policies without any prior due diligence. That's why people are sceptical. It is embarrassing when you remember that Starmer is a lawyer.

Original poster
AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 12:18

Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:12

Thanks.

Can I ask some more questions? Given your distrust of Labour plans, I’m assuming you don’t like the Labour Party as a whole. Would you consider yourself a Conservative supporter?

And do you mind me asking if your political preferences have changed over your life time?

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No, I have never voted Conservative.

I'm a floating voter between Green and Labour.

I don't trust Labour anymore sadly, even though I'm an active member of a union.

When they let us down badly on supporting women's rights I've started to question everything they're putting out. They need to be specific and clear on what they are saying, or we'll end up in a deeper mess.

OP posts:
TheMadnessOfOfsted · 31/01/2024 12:18

Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:12

Thanks.

Can I ask some more questions? Given your distrust of Labour plans, I’m assuming you don’t like the Labour Party as a whole. Would you consider yourself a Conservative supporter?

And do you mind me asking if your political preferences have changed over your life time?

Show quote history

Forgive my jumping in, but I can answer that question just by reading the thread.

Op already said she's a floating voter, so she doesn't consider herself a Conservative supporter and her political preferences have obviously changed over her lifetime.

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:15

Another76543 · 31/01/2024 12:11

The Labour Party have already illustrated that they don’t understand basic VAT law (they suggested that removing charitable status was going to lead to VAT being payable). It took them a while to realise that it wouldn’t. Given the lack of basic understanding, it’s not unreasonable to question whether or not university fees would be captured (inadvertently or otherwise), especially as the VAT exemption for universities is in the same part of the VAT rules as private schools.

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I mean it’s pretty unreasonable, but obviously people are free to say what they like on the internet free from the burdens of having to be sensible.

I’m sure Bridget and Co all wish they hadn’t gone down the charitable status track from an optics perspective, but they are basically achieving their goal regardless.

Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:12

AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 12:04

No both are state educated.

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Thanks.

Can I ask some more questions? Given your distrust of Labour plans, I’m assuming you don’t like the Labour Party as a whole. Would you consider yourself a Conservative supporter?

And do you mind me asking if your political preferences have changed over your life time?

Another76543 · 31/01/2024 12:11

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:05

I’ve pointed out multiple times that the real risk to the cost of university education is the fee cap. But instead various posters have chosen to indulge in flights of fantasy around how legislation is drafting accidentally causing a VAT on fees. It’s mad.

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The Labour Party have already illustrated that they don’t understand basic VAT law (they suggested that removing charitable status was going to lead to VAT being payable). It took them a while to realise that it wouldn’t. Given the lack of basic understanding, it’s not unreasonable to question whether or not university fees would be captured (inadvertently or otherwise), especially as the VAT exemption for universities is in the same part of the VAT rules as private schools.

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:11

SchoolQuestionnaire · 31/01/2024 12:07

Op isn’t saying that Labour are intending for this to happen. She’s saying that unless they are very clear on any change in the criteria, private schools may use the fact that Uni’s are categorised in the same way in terms of VAT exemption to query why they are being forced to pay VAT and uni’s aren’t.

I think it’s a valid question tbh.

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Honestly the idea that it might happen my accident is even more ridiculous. Look, I think politicians are useless at the best of times, but the notion that they’re going to introduce another £3bn of tax because they didn’t read the small print is preposterous.

Original poster
AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 12:10

I think there are a few lawyers on this thread, so hoping you can answer this one.

If the ISC decides to mount a legal challenge against changes to VAT exemptions (if they try to apply it private schools in isolation) what process would they follow? who would hear the case?

OP posts:
Okisenough · 31/01/2024 12:08

IrritatingIrritant · 31/01/2024 08:24

University fees will definitely rise over the next decade. Not because of VAT, but because governments do not want to invest in any education in this country. Universities are struggling financially anyway. The only way they can survive is to charge the students more.

I think rises will happen gradually every few years by a few thousand until it becomes unattainable for many.

THIS 🙁

It will be the case that parents need to save from birth in case their children want to go to university or hope their kids can get bursaries.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 31/01/2024 12:07

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:04

Yeah, they’re still not going to address your niche concern and draw attention to something that no one sane thinks is going to happen.

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Op isn’t saying that Labour are intending for this to happen. She’s saying that unless they are very clear on any change in the criteria, private schools may use the fact that Uni’s are categorised in the same way in terms of VAT exemption to query why they are being forced to pay VAT and uni’s aren’t.

I think it’s a valid question tbh.

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:05

EasternStandard · 31/01/2024 12:04

You’re not adding much bar insults I have to say

Kudos to pp for apologising though re mistake, rare on mn

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I’ve pointed out multiple times that the real risk to the cost of university education is the fee cap. But instead various posters have chosen to indulge in flights of fantasy around how legislation is drafting accidentally causing a VAT on fees. It’s mad.

notthatthis · 31/01/2024 12:05

AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 08:06

Does it worry you that this new policy of adding VAT on educational fees will also be applied to university fees as well?

AIBU to think this will put university out of the reach of the majority of families who will support their kids through Uni?

Also, for those who do go the level of debt they will come out with will be really big.

If they can apply VAT to private school educational fees then they've setup a case for Independent schools argue that it must be applied to Uni as well.

Is this going to create a situation where only the wealthy can send their kids to Uni?

I'm wondering why no one is asking this question!!

As it should be, otherwise it's just attacking "the wealthy" or rich - whatever their definition of that is. Everyone should be treated fairly. If everyone is paying VAT, it should mean everyone without exception.
Tuition is tuition whether it's private school or university.

I would say they should go as far as taxing for piano / music lessons, football coaching, ballet classes etc. It should all be booked via a government portal and taxed right away.

Original poster
AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 12:04

Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:02

@AgathaCrispee do you mind if I ask whether your dc go to private school?

No both are state educated.

OP posts:
LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:04

AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 12:03

I don't agree. By asking questions we raise concerns and put pressure on them to provide clarity.

Don't nothing gets nothing.

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Yeah, they’re still not going to address your niche concern and draw attention to something that no one sane thinks is going to happen.

EasternStandard · 31/01/2024 12:04

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:03

It’s completely mad. There’s no discussion here, just people playing out made up stories in their heads and trying to sound like it’s thoughtful commentary.

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You’re not adding much bar insults I have to say

Kudos to pp for apologising though re mistake, rare on mn

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:03

EasternStandard · 31/01/2024 12:00

It’s not a ‘deranged thread’.

Any more than Starmer getting tied up in charitable status to start with

You might not like the question but it’s prompted discussion

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It’s completely mad. There’s no discussion here, just people playing out made up stories in their heads and trying to sound like it’s thoughtful commentary.

Original poster
AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 12:03

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:01

You’re not going to get that. So you’re just going to have to live with (entirely in your own head) worry that VAT on university fees is coming, while ignoring the altogether more likely outcome that the fee cap is lifted by significantly more than 20%.

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I don't agree. By asking questions we raise concerns and put pressure on them to provide clarity.

Don't nothing gets nothing.

OP posts:
Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:02

@AgathaCrispee do you mind if I ask whether your dc go to private school?

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 12:01

AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 11:59

What I'd be looking for is a detailed explanation of how they will change VAT regulations that cover both universities and private schools in the same exemption. That they recognise that both rely on the same exemption, so to change one could impact the other.

At the moment, both are covered under the same rules.

You’re not going to get that. So you’re just going to have to live with (entirely in your own head) worry that VAT on university fees is coming, while ignoring the altogether more likely outcome that the fee cap is lifted by significantly more than 20%.

TheLostOnes · 31/01/2024 12:01

EasternStandard · 31/01/2024 11:52

Just an example of how precious people are

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Why precious? I pointed out that your misunderstanding of what the pp said was incorrect and made a jokey comment.

Original poster
AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 12:01

Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:00

@HopeMumsnet thanks for clarifying and apologies @AgathaCrispee for suggesting you weren’t a genuine poster.

Thank you, I really appreciate that 😊

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 31/01/2024 12:00

LongTimeListener1 · 31/01/2024 11:56

Why bother scrutinising them on something that they’re actively trying to implement when you can make deranged threads on Mumsnet about something that no one has even suggested?

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It’s not a ‘deranged thread’.

Any more than Starmer getting tied up in charitable status to start with

You might not like the question but it’s prompted discussion

Cvoight · 31/01/2024 12:00

@HopeMumsnet thanks for clarifying and apologies @AgathaCrispee for suggesting you weren’t a genuine poster.

Original poster
AgathaCrispee · 31/01/2024 11:59

What I'd be looking for is a detailed explanation of how they will change VAT regulations that cover both universities and private schools in the same exemption. That they recognise that both rely on the same exemption, so to change one could impact the other.

At the moment, both are covered under the same rules.

If VAT is added on Private School Fees, then it will be added onto University fees as well
OP posts: