New manager want me in the office. I wfh-help!

You can get decent travelogue rooms for £80 a night or less and if you book ahead a train isnt too bad. Once a month seems fine to me especially if you meet a friend. I’d do it once or twice to shut them up and then maybe let it slip a bit afterwards

Do they pay for a hotel

Follow Molly Johnson-Jones, Flexa on Linked In, she's an advocate for hybrid/wfh work, has her own company promoting this.

WFH is a perk in some degrees as you don't have to commute, but I am far more productive at home than I am at work.

We have lost out on good employees because we only offer hybrid. We have lost staff and we have had employment offers rejected. However, we are public sector (which is why we don’t offer wfh contracts as standard) and tend to attract recruits from public sector - most of which are mandating 2 days per week office based (we ask for 1). It’s interesting for me to watch this space right now as future ways of working are so uncertain. My last organisation have embraced wfh and sold off all their offices. Contacts I have in other organisations (private sector) are reporting a trend towards hybrid and getting ‘bums back on seats’, especially this year so far.

They need to consult you in this change.

Even though your contract says HQ as you've been wfh for 2 years they have accepted this and need to consult you in changing it.

Call ACAS for advice on how best to handle this.

I'd suggest you be willing to settle for once a month plus they pay your travel expenses.

I'm fairly lucky in that there's a lot of government contract work around. I don't mind 2 days in the office but certainly not 5.

Maybe menopause isn't helping me. You do get the 'more mature' person stance too of 'I can't be doing with this'. In one office, I had a woke younger colleague who was vegan preach to me about veganism, he was also gay so again preaching on this, and being woke in general. His colleague wrongly accused me not long after starting of 'being a Daily Mail reader' (I'm not!) - probably because I'm blonde, white and of a certain age, I'd said nothing at all to that effect! I said I'd report him for bullying (there was something else) if he carried on with that. Luckily we eventually got on, but why should I have to be subjected to that?! At least at home you can deal with people from afar.

Good advice to check if you have legal expenses insurance. It's a common add on to household insurance

I never understand why people sound so gleeful at stuff like this. Why should working from home be seen as a perk? It doesn't mean you're less productive. Paying for the commute isn't something you should just have to 'suck up' unless you have to. And if a company is looking at ways of paying its staff less, you can guarantee it'll be looking at ways of paying YOU less.

My OH now works hybrid, nobody's contract has been updated to reflect this which means that in reality they move the goalposts every 6 months or so.

I wonder what would happen if all the employees insisted en masse to go in 5 days a week when there's not the office space to allow for it anymore and one day of the week is completely closed because that's what it states on their contracts.

From my point of view I'm currently job searching and very few companies are willing to put in writing in a job advert what they actually consider hybrid working to be.

Hi OP, I work in HR.

Often we don't want to issue home worker contracts as it has other implications e.g. for our corporate insurance costs as we then have multiple working locations, for DSE assessment reasons and also as we do not want to be covering the hotel/transport costs of employees travelling into the office every so often for meetings.

Do you have any emails from when you accepted the job discussing the fact that you'll be WFH and in the office every few months? If the contract says you're office based this must have been a discussion at the time and having the evidence of that would help your case.

Ultimately if your contract says HQ then yes, they could ask for you to be in the office more frequently. But if you can show the email/written evidence of your previous discussion this may help you negotiate, especially if you're a good worker and they don't want the hassle of you leaving.

God, same. I couldn't work in an office now - I have ADHD anyway and that combined with menopause means I need peace and quiet to be able to work. People with honking laughs or who want the radio on when they work would probably drive me to murder, and I wouldn't even be sorry. I couldn't be productive in an office environment, other than for the occasional brainstorming session. I do think the office has some value for younger people - apart from anything else, it's good for socialising - but for most of us who've been at the coal face for a couple of decades, and are in knowledge working jobs, it's just not necessary. If I had to commute into work again, I'd quit. There are still plenty of fully remote jobs available in my field.

Well, that's the $64,000 question. There are employers who are in demand enough to set their own terms, of course. But for those who can't, there seems to be a lot of variation in how realistic they are. Some are very aware of what they offer in relation to the competition, others need to learn the hard way.

I am seconding pps: Once a month does seem fairly generous.

Could you negotiate for a change to your contract specifying that it actually is just one a month?
I´d try to find a compromise and get it in writing. I´d be a bit worried about new manager deciding that one a month actually wouldn´t be enough and insisting on more (e.g., one once a week suddenly being considered the minimum).

Our company is happy to move people’s contracts to WFH if that is what they prefer post covid.

However their pay will reflect that. No more London allowances if living in a place that is further than a standard commute

Cant have cake and eat it. Not saying that’s what happening here but an example of someone in our office who kicked off at her pay being renegotiated when she moved to a wfh contract, as she is now living in the Lake District

I think a lot of people will be in your situation, e.g. with a bitch of a commute.

From pp's here too, long commutes where they signed up to WFH before, means they'll have to look for another job.

So, ultimately, does this mean employers lose out on good workers simply because they want hybrid/wfh model? Or not.

I hope they don't pay your expenses for it!! It's not their fault you live 5 hours away. Imagine if other employees got wind of that. They'll all be submitting their daily commute costs! 🤣

You really think I want to be in the office to teach the younger inexperienced colleagues stuff? They don't need me. There are way more colleagues who can teach them what they need to know. On my salary too, which is usually reduced if you're hybrid, why should I come in more than say 2-3 days a week max?

And then, the worst of it, is when they start getting woke with you when they talk and other stuff, using words like 'triggering'. Please.

I work in HR and we have this situation as many people moved during Covid. No her employer probably would not cover travel and accommodation. These are not valid expenses as she is office based, presumably at that office and knew that from signing her contract of employment. We won’t cover costs in those circumstances. If they wanted to they could order you back full time and refusal could result in dismissal.

As OP does go into the office every few months then wfh custom and practice for permanent wfh would be more difficult to argue than if she had never worked in the office.

I would probably ask if you can continue to do your office days in a block every few months. I would expect to foot the bill for transport and accommodation myself though. You mention you have a disabled DH. You could ask for your caring responsibilities to be taken into consideration and have your contract reviewed to see if they could accommodate permanent wfh as part of flexible working, for this reason. It’s something my organisation have accommodated.

On a personal level I’ve not been in the office myself for 2 years (or won’t have by the time I finish maternity leave). I’ve also moved house and it’s going to be a bitch of a commute once a week so I do get it. When I actually have to do it I’ll have to balance the commute against the rest of the job and what else is on offer.

You lucky they allowed you to wfh so long if your contract.says office based.. five hours is a very long commute...

You probably don't need 2 nights in a hotel. I'd stay in a hotel the night before and then drive straight home after the office. I'd rather be driving home than sat around in a hotel room.

Agree. There's no benefit to people who've never heard of implied terms and conditions telling you that contract says end of. You need specialist advice before anything else.

Once you know that, you can further review your options. It may be that even if the office work can't be contractually enforced, you're better off looking elsewhere anyway, but you need to know your legal position first.

If she'd agreed it with her manager when taking the job that it was fully remote, you wouldn't expect to be 'tricked' into signing a contract that stated otherwise. It's on the company, not her, if they weren't clear about her working conditions.

Where does it say she was tricked? Nobody can make you sign a contract against your will - presumably OP read it over and knew her place of work was actually five hours away from her house?

I'd speak to the manager and explain the situation. See what comes of it.
How was the job advertised?
What noises have been made since you started and now about wfh being a covid contingency or BAU?
And when you were given your contract, did you query the location of your usual workplace? Seeing as you live so far away I find it surprising if you didn't at least send an email to the hiring manager/HR to ask.
Custom and practice does play a role here - that is, even if your contract/job description says one thing, if you've been doing something different for a long time your employer can't suddenly insist you go back to the terms outlined.in your contract/job description.
However, asking for you to come in once a month is really not a lot and I think you'd struggle to argue that's not acceptable because of custom and practice.
It's immaterial that your employer has always known where you live. If you take a job and the contact states a usual place of work then the onus really is on you to ensure that it's commutable (perhaps not every day or even every week, but for regular visits).

This.

A lot of people were hired on standard contracts but told that they would be 100% homebased. Especially during 2020-2022. Most people take what they are told, and what is / has been practice as standard.

Unless you have been previously burned by an employer, you may not think to check the fine details of your contract and take your working agreement on trust.

I would ask to get this moved to the legal/employment board.

You'll get lots of people opinions here but this is a contractual query - you only actually need advice from professionals who can advise on customs and practice.

It could mean your contract has changed because you've been doing this arrangement for so long.

Could put you in a strong bargaining position for work to pay for travel and hotel if you do want to go in once a month etc.