New manager want me in the office. I wfh-help!

It seems you work from home temporarily but are obliged to work from the office.

Many people work this far from home (usualy men) and they have to stay away from home mon-fri.

Op perhaps your new manager would like to meet you in person ?

Perhaps some single people in your team are struggling WFH due to the isolation ?

Perhaps there is a company restructure due soon

Your employer could have a million reasons for wanting you to attend the office

It is not the employers issue that you live 5 hours away

Its not my call or what I want, it is just what is most likely to happen and is happening, we will all be in the office most of the time before long. People can hope for the best regarding wfh but they should be realistic that it is likely it will end for the majority of us and so plan and adjust your expectations accordingly.

If it could be argued that “custom and practice” applied. Which isn’t clear given the comms and the contract contradict one another (in OP’s favour) but also that the business is allowed to want to make changes to working practices, particularly post-Covid.

Why would the contract have very little bearing? Genuine question

Yes, same question from me!

Erm, they absolutely could. You’d be in breech of your terms and conditions.

the OP might be lucky on the definition of ‘occasional’ but still, it’s isn’t a home based role and so they are well within there rights to recall her to the office. Another poster did say she could apply for reasonable adjustments for her carer role but they still might make her go.

Our contracts changed to ‘hybrid’ we rarely go to the office but they wouldn’t change it to home based just in case they wanted us back!

Except they wouldn’t, and you clearly don’t have a clue

Really? Can you please explain why her employers cannot expect her back into the office when her contract states that as her place of work? Genuinely curious ad it sounds bonkers to me!

*“I wfh permanently but my contract says HQ.
I live 5 hours away always have done. They knew where I lived when I started.”

not to be blunt but you also knew where you lived when you applied for the job. If your contract says HQ you could always ask to continue working from home but the contract is not in your favour*

Exactly this. I applied for a job almost 100 miles away. I got it, and signed a contract for my new place of work, which stated the location. You know what I did? Moved house!

Except they wouldn’t, and you clearly don’t have a clue.

Unless you are contracted to wfh then you have no choice but to go to the office when they say you need too. They would be fully in their rights to sack you if you refused to do so!

Indeed!!

The equivalent 'teacher' example, @surreygirl1987, would be you applying to TEFL to Chinese students online, doing so successfully for 3 years, and then being asked to move to China. I'm sure you'd think that's completely fair? Or applying to work as a teacher in 1 school and then being told actually you have to go and tutor all your students in their homes, individually?

Well yes it would be fair IF THAT'S WHAT MY CONTRACT SAID! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

But she’s managed to do the job from home for the last 2 years without issue so why should she?

Uh... because her contract says so?! Just because she's been lucky for the past 2 years doesn't mean she's entitled to!

@oldheadband I help across teams when I can on chat
But if I'm in the office i get interrupted constantly with questions. It's my managers job to answer them, not mine but because I've been there the longest people seem to come to me
We all get min wage so it's not like I'm paid more for knowing stuff, ask a manager, they're there!

A lot of younger workers can’t afford the commute or to live by these companies due to the poor wages. At least with hybrid and using technology, we can offer social mobility for those young people to work up in certain sectors. This also levels up the areas they reside in as they’re more likely to be spending money locally and to afford housing. The young people I meet live their lives through technology but maybe that’s my sector.

There’s pros and cons to everything. Gone are the days spending your life commuting and being loyal to a company awards you anything, all we get is a suppressed wage and limited benefits. At least flexibility and WFH will keep a lot of us in post longer and able to pass on information to new joiners. Maybe this is generational I don’t know but I work to live, I don’t live to work.

A small number of current senior workers already in their niche who stubbornly remain at home may well be ok and able to stay at home however they impoverish the workforce of the future by doing so. But as long as they are ok that is all that matters to them I suppose.

We shall agree to disagree. AI and machine learning are more likely to replace the in office jobs than they are going to replace the hybrid workers who predominantly work in specialisms that need human interaction and logic. Most people I know work in multi nationals and are working with people across the globe from wherever, not having a chat with Dave at the kettle then returning to their assigned desk.

Surely a few days every 3-4 months is the same as one day per month? Why does it have to be spaced out?

@IdleAnimations Not what I am seeing across a range of business sizes, I think people need to start being realistic about this when looking for jobs and planning their futures, where to live and so on. Lots of companies are giving up office space and losing staff as AI becomes a workable alternative so a wfh opportunity might not be a great as it seems two or three years down the line. There will always be some wfh oppertunities but it won't be the norm or possible for most people and people can easily delude themselves on the reality of a situation if its what they really want and they should be careful of that.

I think, if you've had this arrangement for a long time then it's implied that this is how you work. I'd get advice on this as I don't think they can make you come in if you've always worked from home, even though your contract says HQ.

Hard disagree.

A lot of companies can offer smaller wages, save on office space and are happy to not be paying overheads in the office (hence hot desking). Even big movers like Meta (Facebook) and banks have given up London office space.

Honestly I think work from home is not going to be the future in the way people thought it would. Quite a few people I know are looking to move on in their careers at the moment and everywhere wants new employees in the office most of the time. In a few years spending most days in the office will be normal again, I know lots of people don't like to hear that but its just the truth. The CEO's i.e. your bosses just don't like wfm culture.

Me too. Especially when lack of flexibility and long commutes often disadvantages women the most - especially when they have children or caring responsibilities.

“Mothers, not exclusively, but in particular, may have already gained a great deal from this shift. Some economists have suggested remote work factored into the all time high in labour force participation among women of prime working age. The jump for mothers of young children has been particularly high, and among those who have a bachelor’s degree, it’s even higher.”

Article NY Times link:

https://archive.ph/1kVHD

But the job applied for was remote and she has worked remotely for 2 years. How is that entitled?

Seeing as you don't work from home and work in a career that doesn't lend itself to working from home it's quite strange that you're commenting on this so much.

People can get very odd about remote working, whilst completely ignoring other beneficial aspects of people's terms and conditions like pensions, wages and holidays. Hence there are posters doing the poor me routine with reference to jobs that have some benefits that are way better than others get. Public sector pensions, for example. Total lack of self-awareness.

And it's not like hybrid jobs are exactly thin on the ground at the moment. Anyone who desperately wants to work remotely, particularly if they've already shown enough ability to do ok in one career, could very likely get a hybrid/wfh role if they wanted it.

Talk to HR about getting your contract changed to 100% WFH

If that doesn't work, talk to ACAS

If that's no good, talk to an employment lawyer

Ignore people saying it's on you/you should go into the office - there's no demonstrable business need.