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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think giving me one day a week actually isn’t ok?? Or AIBU?

504 replies

wpur · 29/01/2024 11:16

DH works away in the week and on Saturdays he has to do ‘admin.’ He is high up in the NHS and prior to having dd he did always work Saturdays in his office room in our house. I wouldn’t see him pretty much all day.

Since having dd he had to relocate for work, this was not his fault and he has taken the best job he can. It is not possible for him to come home in the week, it’s too far and would be pointless anyway as dd is long in bed before he gets back. No point me relocating with him as I have all my family nearby and his contact is only fixed for 9 months… then the search will begin again for another job.

He has started coming home late Saturday night (after dd is in bed) and then staying all day Sunday until she has gone to bed. He relocated for work when she was 6 months and she’s now 17 months. I am sick of doing everything alone. He has said I can take the entire day on a Sunday to myself, either go out alone or we all go out as a family, or he will do entertain her all day while I am in the house doing my own thing etc.

I feel like this is unacceptable and he should be back late Friday night to help on Saturdays too. He says it is pointless as he can’t avoid the Saturday admin work and he would just have to do it when back at home and it would take him longer to get through it. He thinks giving me a day to myself a week is sufficient in the circumstances. AIBU? I am so fed up and angry that I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

OP posts:
Penguinmouse · 30/01/2024 10:38

All day in bed on a Sunday until your daughter is asleep so what he sees her when exactly? Why did he even take this job? Do you work as well OP? Sounds like this arrangement is a complete disaster but I also think his commitment to his child is in the toilet.

Heather37231 · 30/01/2024 10:33

Scirocco · 30/01/2024 10:31

@Heather37231 @FarmGirl78

NHS consultants have contracts and job plans, divided into 'sessions', with each session being around half a day / 4 hours. Our basic pay is calculated based on how many sessions we're contracted for.

However, this doesn't take into account several other factors...

If I'm in the middle of treating someone, I'm not going to just down tools and walk out at 5pm. Emergency operations, interventions, assessments, etc can't just be postponed for clinicians' convenience. And it's often not possible to safely hand over to someone else - if there even is someone else that could take over.

If I've spent all day seeing patients and managing emergencies, I still need to get the necessary information to do my job effectively the next day. Whether I do that preparation the night before or get up early and do it in the morning, it's still needing to be done before my working day starts.

Another issue for OP's husband will be that he's not yet in a substantive post - he's a locum consultant. That means he doesn't have much job security and will rely on having a competitive CV and references if he wants to get a permanent post in the future. If he clocks in and out as per the minimum terms of his contract, that won't happen. There'll be patient complaints, colleagues won't feel he's a team player, he'll miss out on being able to do the additional work that's really crucial for career progression. If he wants to stay as a locum in less desirable vacancies, he could probably get away with doing the bare minimum. But if he wants better opportunities and potentially a substantive post in an area suitable for his family, then he needs to put in a lot of time and effort now.

Management structures are often not particularly supportive of reality-based job plans, requests for resources, etc. I'd say about 90% of consultants I know (including CDs) work way more hours than are in our job plans.

(Oh, if anyone's thinking "well, she can't be working that hard if she's on here now", I'm on leave today and thoroughly enjoying it).

OK, but how come you and @Psychonabike have such different takes on this? You are both within the system.

Scirocco · 30/01/2024 10:31

@Heather37231 @FarmGirl78

NHS consultants have contracts and job plans, divided into 'sessions', with each session being around half a day / 4 hours. Our basic pay is calculated based on how many sessions we're contracted for.

However, this doesn't take into account several other factors...

If I'm in the middle of treating someone, I'm not going to just down tools and walk out at 5pm. Emergency operations, interventions, assessments, etc can't just be postponed for clinicians' convenience. And it's often not possible to safely hand over to someone else - if there even is someone else that could take over.

If I've spent all day seeing patients and managing emergencies, I still need to get the necessary information to do my job effectively the next day. Whether I do that preparation the night before or get up early and do it in the morning, it's still needing to be done before my working day starts.

Another issue for OP's husband will be that he's not yet in a substantive post - he's a locum consultant. That means he doesn't have much job security and will rely on having a competitive CV and references if he wants to get a permanent post in the future. If he clocks in and out as per the minimum terms of his contract, that won't happen. There'll be patient complaints, colleagues won't feel he's a team player, he'll miss out on being able to do the additional work that's really crucial for career progression. If he wants to stay as a locum in less desirable vacancies, he could probably get away with doing the bare minimum. But if he wants better opportunities and potentially a substantive post in an area suitable for his family, then he needs to put in a lot of time and effort now.

Management structures are often not particularly supportive of reality-based job plans, requests for resources, etc. I'd say about 90% of consultants I know (including CDs) work way more hours than are in our job plans.

(Oh, if anyone's thinking "well, she can't be working that hard if she's on here now", I'm on leave today and thoroughly enjoying it).

Heather37231 · 30/01/2024 10:29

thesurrealist · 30/01/2024 09:51

According to the Daily Mail and the government people like me do fuck all so apparently nothing would change if we stopped.

In reality, if every manager and administrator left their posts for 24 hours the whole hospital would come to a standstill as clinical work cannot continue without the support we give. Then there would be numerous threads on MN complaining that the NHS is broken - the NHS is broken, but that is the fault of the government that keeps us underfunded and working in conditions that are dangerous.

However, according to some posters those of us - clinical and non-clinical - who have described the reality of our days are exaggerating and being a martyr.

I’m still struggling with the physical impossibility of 500 emails to respond to every evening, 250 of which are urgent. I just don’t think that you do yourself any favours by throwing out figures that are infeasible if you want to make a point about your funding and working conditions.

thesurrealist · 30/01/2024 09:51

PegasusReturns · 29/01/2024 22:49

To those working ridiculous hours in the NHS, what would happen if you just stopped?!

it cannot be sustainable to work 70+ hours a week with no end in sight.

who is in charge of setting your workload?

According to the Daily Mail and the government people like me do fuck all so apparently nothing would change if we stopped.

In reality, if every manager and administrator left their posts for 24 hours the whole hospital would come to a standstill as clinical work cannot continue without the support we give. Then there would be numerous threads on MN complaining that the NHS is broken - the NHS is broken, but that is the fault of the government that keeps us underfunded and working in conditions that are dangerous.

However, according to some posters those of us - clinical and non-clinical - who have described the reality of our days are exaggerating and being a martyr.

Orangello · 30/01/2024 09:03

I know what all-nighters and working weekends are very well. You do what you must. But OPs husband has the option to go home on Friday - even if he needs to work, he can see his wife and child. He chooses not to, only gets there after the child is in bed on Saturday. That's the difference.

Psychonabike · 30/01/2024 08:56

@FarmGirl78

I have no idea what you are talking about. Banding doesn't apply to hospital medical consultants. They have a time sensitive contract which at no point changes into a non time sensitive, professional contract. There may be expectation but it's at odds with actual contracts, employment law and employment rights.

Heather37231 · 30/01/2024 08:51

FarmGirl78 · 30/01/2024 08:42

Nah. Band 8 and above in the NHS it's standard clause in contracts which says something like "The employee shall work any additional hours required to ensure the job is completed to a level commensurate with the role". Same in teaching, police, local government etc. You can't do just your 37.5 hrs and say "That's it lads, I'm done" and take your jacket and head home. In senior roles you just have to work until it's done. And that workload is ever increasing. And you don't get paid overtime. It's just seen as your job.

Take a look at the post by @Psychonabike, at 14:40 yesterday, who is someone who actually manages NHS consultants. The reality is, it would seem, somewhere in between contracted hours and “work all hours without complaint”.

I am in an industry myself where contracted hours are pretty meaningless and I absolutely have to work the hours needed to get the job done, so l completely understand that this goes with the territory in professional/senior roles. However there has never been a blanket expectation of a full day’s additional work every week and we would be supporting anyone who felt that this was necessary to review their working methods or pushing their managers to consider a different team structure.

FarmGirl78 · 30/01/2024 08:42

PinkyFlamingo · 29/01/2024 11:23

If he works for the NHS then he will have contracted hours. What are those? If it's 37 and a half hours Monday to Friday for example then if he can't get his admin done within this there is something far wrong with his workload

Nah. Band 8 and above in the NHS it's standard clause in contracts which says something like "The employee shall work any additional hours required to ensure the job is completed to a level commensurate with the role". Same in teaching, police, local government etc. You can't do just your 37.5 hrs and say "That's it lads, I'm done" and take your jacket and head home. In senior roles you just have to work until it's done. And that workload is ever increasing. And you don't get paid overtime. It's just seen as your job.

burnoutbabe · 30/01/2024 08:15

But we don't know his hours.

He could well be doing 8-8 but then he could also do another hour 9-10 to get most admin sone that day and only a bit to finish Saturday morning or Sunday at home.

But it seems more likely he is just avoiding being at home by either being very inefficient or just lying about his work needs.
No invite for wife and baby to go up to his some weekends -then he'd get 10 hours extra time by not travelling and could do all admin then.

JanuarySlog · 30/01/2024 07:41

Orangello · 29/01/2024 20:52

How low are some of the bars here? Would you say the same if a mum did no childcare for 6 days and then graciously offered the dad that hey, you can go out on Sunday, I will look after my own child! Wow what a hero!

This is exactly what my sister in law did when she was qualifying as a consultant. She had a baby and a toddler and worked all hours. She still does, 10 years on, although it's now just one weekend in 4.

My brother, who also has a Big Job just sorted stuff, plus they had paid help and family support.

I can't understand all the people who think the DH is swanning in at 9am and swanning home at 5pm to put his feet up while he's away. It just shows how clueless some people are about certain jobs.

Rainsew · 30/01/2024 07:28

I for 1 second don't buy it that his female collegues work 6 day weeks with toddlers.

Me neither.

MamaBear4ever · 30/01/2024 07:11

I have a senior role in the NHS and sometimes have overspill into the evening but rarely weekends. 37.5hr contracts noone should be doing a 6 day week especially not on a 9mth contract. He needs to address what he does mon - frid then come home.

Scirocco · 29/01/2024 23:15

PegasusReturns · 29/01/2024 22:49

To those working ridiculous hours in the NHS, what would happen if you just stopped?!

it cannot be sustainable to work 70+ hours a week with no end in sight.

who is in charge of setting your workload?

If I stop, people die. There's nobody who'll do the work if I don't.

Ultimately, national funding decisions dictate resources, including staffing. If a health board or trust can only afford one whole time equivalent post in something, that's what it has. There isn't a quick fix, but the longer term solution would start with more funding for the NHS, better pay and working conditions for staff, and expansion of university and training placements. But that costs money and takes time. Additionally, changes to wider ranging policies about, eg, immigration mean it's harder to recruit internationally.

ORLt · 29/01/2024 23:07

JennyForeigner · 29/01/2024 22:30

Honestly this just sounds madly unconvincing. I used to be a management consultant. My sister still is one in a famously all hours culture. Her boss has children and travels almost every day and she still isn't expected to do her admin on a Saturday, let alone needing to pretend it's an office day to get anything done.

In your husband's version, when do all of you spend any proper time together as a family? When do you and he spend time together?

He is not in management consulting, he has a serious job.

PegasusReturns · 29/01/2024 22:49

To those working ridiculous hours in the NHS, what would happen if you just stopped?!

it cannot be sustainable to work 70+ hours a week with no end in sight.

who is in charge of setting your workload?

MissTrip82 · 29/01/2024 22:30

lechatnoir · 29/01/2024 13:29

We live near a large teaching hospital and have loads of medical pals including consultants. Not one works the hours your DH does, all have children and bar the odd on-call, are around all weekend. They have certainly done their share of hideous hours and all nighters but by the time you get to consultant level this would be unusual unless they are a workaholic and choose work over family and this tends to be surgeons IME

He’s away all week so has event week night for this mystery ‘admin’ (I mean, wtf is that?) He’ll have a pa if not personally then for his team so there’s only so much he’ll need to do unless he’s hideously disorganised. I’d be more than pissed off OP I’d be telling him not to bother coming home and start booking alternate weekends off and saving his annual leave to share parenting when you split up. Oh, and absolutely reckon here’s more going on the work and admin.

Most of the people in my friendship group are consultants. Can’t think of one around all weekend, no matter the specialty. Your experience through your friends is extremely unusual.

JennyForeigner · 29/01/2024 22:30

Honestly this just sounds madly unconvincing. I used to be a management consultant. My sister still is one in a famously all hours culture. Her boss has children and travels almost every day and she still isn't expected to do her admin on a Saturday, let alone needing to pretend it's an office day to get anything done.

In your husband's version, when do all of you spend any proper time together as a family? When do you and he spend time together?

Findinganewme · 29/01/2024 22:23

I think I would just feel some comfort knowing that my husband is around, albeit busy. I understand that your husband has unavoidable admin, but surely he takes lunch and dinner breaks and the evening out of admin? He could do those with you and your baby, so I feel that he is being unreasonable by taking a day of probable rest, on his own.

you just be exhausted with solo parenting. As he is senior in the NHS, are you able to get some paid help, so that you can have some rest during the week?

Orangello · 29/01/2024 21:38

Why is this relevant to the discussion what we do? We don't know what OP does, she could also be working more than full time?
If you're so curious then I have a well paid career where I'm expected to work more than contracted hours, I often work evenings and weekends, plus have quite a bit of business travel. Yes I can pay for a nice house and car and holidays. So I guess I should not be expected to 'baby-sit'?
For some reason I think I wouldn't get mother of the year award if I had as little input into raising my children as OPs husband.

Ibizamumof4 · 29/01/2024 21:34

Sounds odd they’d he’s got they much admin if he’s at such a high level

Thegoodbadandugly · 29/01/2024 20:56

Orangello · 29/01/2024 20:52

How low are some of the bars here? Would you say the same if a mum did no childcare for 6 days and then graciously offered the dad that hey, you can go out on Sunday, I will look after my own child! Wow what a hero!

Out of interest what job do you and your partner do?

Orangello · 29/01/2024 20:52

How low are some of the bars here? Would you say the same if a mum did no childcare for 6 days and then graciously offered the dad that hey, you can go out on Sunday, I will look after my own child! Wow what a hero!

Passingthethyme · 29/01/2024 20:21

Sounds like a shitty situation but I think he's more generous than most partners offering you a day off. I'd take it

Callisto1 · 29/01/2024 20:20

I don't think the set up is sustainable if you want any kind of family life. You need to sit down together with him and work out a plan where he spends at least the weekend with you and where he works out how you can live together long term.

This 6 day week is a choice. It might be good for his career progression, he might prefer it but I for 1 second don't buy it that his female collegues work 6 day weeks with toddlers. They make different choices and if he wants a family he has to make them too. He chose to have a child and honestly he is being no different to the much derided every other weekend dads. Honestly if you've got no financial issues I would push to reduce his work hours as soon as possible. If he resists any kind of change you at least know where you stand and that is 2nd to his work.