Represent Drs for ..

Utterbar
I asked because if you bring your profession into it to sort of bolster your input it's surely better to be clear what you do.
The GMC has a poor reputation atm as a regulator and due to extended investigations and several suicides they have been called not fit for purpose.
However if you represent MDU or MPS, Thankyou

100% do it - like others have said, any money comes from a separate budget. Trusts are so horribly mismanaged these days, it isn't that they 'need more money' - the trusts need to manage better! That goes for everything - funding, staffing, medical care. I'm so sorry you lost your dad in this way, you need to push it as far as you can and I'd 100% do the same if I were in your position

it seems like this kind of thing like what happened to OP’s poor father is so prevalent. Do many people complain/sue?

do you mind if I ask - do claims have to be for things where the nhs did something wrong rather than didn’t do something? I mean I get suing for negligence I just don’t know what that encompasses or where you’d find that information

For example, is it enough that tests weren’t ordered but they could pass that off as a judgement call gone wrong or does a patient have to have had something ‘actively’ done to cause harm? I.e., been given the wrong dosage of meds or had the wrong arm amputated (for example) IYSWIM

In my case I’m in a situation where the nhs genuinely seemed to conspire to not allow me to have an operation I needed.

I was deterred/refused at every step by every healthcare provider from nurse to go for over a decade and I was chronically ill because of it.

When I did finally get the op, the surgeon who gave it the go ahead was appalled I hadn’t had it year before. I’m now free of the symptoms I suffered every day for all that time but I lost years of my life being ill and it left me with health anxiety and a total mistrust of the nhs.

The one thing that stood out to me OP, is what you said here:

"yes his diabetes was poorly controlled. He had been diabetic for around 30 years."

I am not medically trained and I do not have diabetes, but even I know that diabetes can kill if you don't control it.

I also know that diabetics should be checking their feet daily for signs of diabetic foot (especially if their diabetes is not well managed).

If your DF lived with badly controlled diabetes for 30 years, he will have no doubt seen HCPs with some regularity. All of whom would have told him that he needs to manage his diabetes better (sometimes with something as simple as a healthier diet and more exercise) AND that he should do daily feet checks.

Now I do not wish to take away from the tragedy of your father's death. However, your Dad lived with a medical issue that he knew could kill him if he didn't manage it properly and in your words he chose not to.

I'm sure you're in pain and you are looking for someone to blame, but the doctors will have told your Dad how to avoid getting diabetic foot, time and time again. How to check for it, to go to a HCP at the first signs of a foot infection.

You said that his foot had got to the stage where you wanted to throw up when you looked at it and at that point he went to A&E.

I do think individuals need to take some personal accountability for their health. In the same way that a chain smoker is told they have a high chance of getting lung cancer; people roll those dice with their health and think that the NHS will pick up the pieces and put them back together, but they can't always do that.

They no longer have the funding, the staff, the time or, in some cases, the will to help people; especially those who aren't helping themselves.

If you want to put a complaint in, then do so, but I think you need to admit to yourself that you're also angry at your Dad, for not looking after himself better, for not getting treatment for his foot sooner and for not taking precautions that would have led to him being around longer both for you and your mum.

I'm very sorry for your loss, it must really sting when it was potentially preventable.

Can you sue if your mum as next of kin doesn’t want to?
if he was discharged for 2 days then back in for a few days is there sufficient evidence that he didn’t deteriorate after he was discharged? Is the lawyer no win no fee? I think if it’s easy to prove negligence and your mum needs the money then go for it but I’d want to be sure you’re not going to lose money to your barrister fighting a losing case

You’re wrong it’s funded completely separately.

Sorry for your loss

I'm not entirely sure how this is going to help the OP, but I do both, I'm a barrister and I do both prosecution and defence (obviously not in a criminal sense but we colloquially adopt the same terms). I work more for the regulator in some areas and more for the defence in others.

@Fedupofdiets

Persue it.

I was very lucky that I actually died on my way back into an operating room so I was resuscitated and then reoperated on to save my life. Now had I gone home originally after the first operation like the first surgeon had wanted me to (after he had sliced my bowel in two and not noticed) I wouldn't be writing this now, as I would have been dead for the past 17 years.

For various reasons I couldn't get anywhere with mine as a lot of the proof of their negligence was mysteriously missing from my notes by the time they got to my solicitor and I was to ill (from their fuck up) to fight it.

You can't get your dad back, but you can make them say his name and address what they did.

I'm so sorry you lost him like that.

🌹

OP unfortunately we can't turn the clock back and nothing anyone here can say will make you feel better sadly. Time and therapy are the only two things that will help with how you feel.

if any compensation can help your mum, of course you should pursue that.

but I have to give you the hard truth here. don't expect the trust to change its ways despite financial settlement. most likely the reason your dad received such abysmal care is because the NHS is no longer functioning. no amount of suing will make it better and frankly the senior management won't care. the healthcare professionals involved likely already feel awful. it is very unlikely that any particular individuals to blame/ or will get blamed. it is the system that is not working.

I am not saying don't sue, especially as it might help your mum. but don't expect positive change. I wish I could say something more hopeful....

Not only would I sue the hospital, I'd add each attending, including GP, as individual defendants. So often people with genuine medical need are dismissed. It's not a mistake not to follow basic process. It's negligence. GPs over there sound like a right nightmare. Someone needs to hold them accountable for their lack of treatment.

As you said, people only pay attention when money is involved. So go after the money and hope it makes people start to think about their actions.

It does sound awful treatment
Nhs 100% need to give AB more easily. They have protocols they dont follow for sepsis.

The drs and nurses just dont seem to rush.

If uk tested for bacterial tonsilitis and chest infections etc we would be giving AB quixker to those that need them
It feels like drs have to guess?

I mean you would think someone having to have an amputation would need antibiotics.

My dc had double ear infections with high fevers and one was ill for weeks and crying etc. Gp couldnt see the drum refused AB ended up in hospital. They couldnt see. Diff gp saw infection and a new heart murmur.
Imo i now have health anxiety as couldnt get treatment from gp. After multiple visits.

Also while in labour my temp spiked (maybe gbs?) And hours into this they finally decided to give iv AB. I was likely dehydrated and they couldnt get a vein.
Luckily i gave birth and me and baby got AB for days.

in terms of suing though that -for me- would depend on the diabetes T1 or T2?
And was his uncontrolled sugars caused by weight and diet etc.

I think my thoughts are because my mu had a heart attack at 55 from smoking heavily for decades. Her heart attack (and previous probable clues to it going to happen) were missed by nhs. I think she was in there at the time.
If she had died yes it would have been nhs fault as aspirin and simple op.
But fundamentally she would have died so younv because she wouldnt quit.
She survived and did quit.

That was for Utterbar

Do it. The NHS is currently funded by people who only see spreadsheets, profit and loss, not people. This seems to be the only way to get through to them.

Does that mean you are a lawyer acting fir the GMC? Or defending Drs eg MDU?

I would do it. Honestly I don't think anything will change if people don't start to kick up a huge fuss when something like this happens. What happened here was unacceptable and someone lost their life as a result. In what other context would court not be considered appropriate. Everyone suing the nhs, making as much noise about poor care as possible, and insisting on better care is the only thing that will initiate the requires changes in the NHS.

It's true that it's ring fenced and comes out of their insurance, but ultimately the amount of people who sue increases the insurance premiums, which still comes out of the public purse.

Suing feels like getting justice as it hits the Trust where it hurts, an investigation and an apology doesn't it is just bullshit

I'm very sorry you lost your dad, Fedupofdiets, and know where you're coming from here. My own late FIL was killed by a glaring medication error, and though they admitted this and apologised profusely at the time, come the inquest they lied about having apologised at all and claimed the records were lost

I think what would swing it for me is that you're a trained nurse and still couldn't get anyone to listen to you - and that being the case, what chance would the rest of us stand?

No, I'm not a negligence lawyer, although I know plenty of them, and they, along with my inquest colleagues, often see cases prior to my involvement. I'm a lawyer who specialises in professional discipline. That includes GMC and NMC as the ones which a lay person would regard as "medical," alongside HCPC, although I appreciate there is a significant difference between doctors, nurses and midwives, and healthcare professionals. There's also SWE for social workers. ACCA for accountants. I could go on but it would make the clarification even more tedious than it began.

This happened to my brother. He was young and left a young family. I remember standing in ICU and saying he's got sepsis and the nurse telling me he didn't have sepsis despite the fact he fucking clearly had sepsis. He died. He needn't have. Hospital fucked up. My sister in law said she was dealing with it but has never mentioned it again. I'd absolutely pursue this.

Please do pursue this.

Something similar happened to a relative of mine a few years ago when they were discharged with high blood sugar levels, they had a fall, seriously deteriorated and ended up in a nursing home when they had previously lived independently. We're in the process of pursuing a complaint. It's taking a very long time though so I'm warning you the process isn't quick. But we asked ourselves if without it would the hospital do things differently and we don't believe they learned from it. So the only way for them to change is to pursue the complaint through litigation.

Do it, I’ve been disabled due a consultant’s negligence and her colleague (my next consultant) told me to sue, because I wasn’t the first. If someone else had sued I would be living my old life still ……. Don’t listen to people that say don’t sue it’s less money for the NHS, change doesn’t happen until there is a financial cost.

OP - I am so sorry for your loss, and after the experiences I have had over my 55 years with the NHS which my family have sucked up i now say go for it.

I'm currently navigating the shitshow that is elderly care for my DF and DSM and I'm a whisker away from losing my mind.

My DSM is in hospital with sudden onset delirium after a series of absences / freezing episodes which may be due to untreated (at her request) aneurysms in her brain and neck. She has been in ten days and her behaviour includes aggression witnessed by ward staff and other patients. They are refusing to scan her unless she's in the community and goes the referral route. They insist it's due to a UTI but her urine test only showed faint markers and her bloods were clear of infection. She has diagnosed long term mental health issues, pre-cognitive impairment and the idea of vascular dementia has been floating around for years but again, until she is released they will not investigate.

At the same time my DF - 84 - who is in remission with splenic lymphoma and had had kidney tumours and follicular cancer on top of stents 14 years ago after a massive heart attack, has been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation and it's taken three weeks to get new medication sorted. He's been asking the GP why he's been getting tired and having palpitations for months, fobbed off with "it's your age" until his chiropodist of all things flagged extremely low pulse rate with thr surgery.

He has been my DSMs carer for years, and is very proud. He finally got me involved because DSM had been rampaging around the house, awake for up to 60 hours at a stretch, for two weeks after these alleged mini strokes and her community nurse suggested UTI but it was impossible to get a sample to the GP who advised 999 and A&E.

Long story short they pumped her full of antibiotics and tried to discharge her in under 72 hours. My Dad is exhausted immuno,-suppressed and after a home visit is on antibiotics currently for a chest infection and possible pneumonia.

DSM is ringing us constantly with various demands and paranoid delusions - today she floated the idea he may have raped her. Given his age and health i will swear this is impossible.

I have fended off two unsafe discharges.

I have repeated comprehensive history to the ever changing cast of staff and doctors and despite the GP who visited him at home sending me a text to confirm it is not safe for DSM to be discharged to his care, they keep pressurising him to have her back with carers 4 times a day. She needs 24 hour supervision and while she has been assessed as having no capacity, it took me going in for a meeting with the discharge nurse to arrange a meeting some time next week to organise a best interests meeting.

This was not communicated to the ward or the social workers, who phoned again to ask what our problem was and tried to bully my poor Dad by reminding us it's her house (true - it's complicated) and she can come home if she wants to. Which us ironic as she's been telling us she wants to sell the house go into a care home and sod my poor Dad.

There is so much more - no communication to us or internally, the intimation that her condition is due to poor family dynamics..... it goes on and fucking on. They claim she us pleasantly confused yet her aggression and rant phone calls have been witnessed and ignored. There are so many red flags in terms of safeguarding it's untrue.

So sorry for the rant but I'm living on my last nerve and worried that the stress will kill my Dad.

Urging.

So all power to you OP. And a huge hug x

Maybe if enough people sue when things go wrong they'll finally listen.

With the report you have and your mums circumstances I would take action to get some compensation for her if at all possible.
Your claim won't impact the patient care budget for the trust. Not doing bloods is awful. It's the first thing they do whenever my parent has had to go into A&E.
I'm sorry for your loss.