Why is recruiting so hard?

You're not going to get suitable applicants if you don't advertise the salary. No one in a stable job is going to apply to a role when they don't even know if it's the same / more money.

One of your posts said that the pay you didn't know. Which means it's not on the advert

I do not apply for jobs that go with the whole salary dependant on experience bullshit.

One reason I like bands I know what the min salary could be and I can argue my experience and skill set should move me to x position in the band. If it's too low I don't waste time applying

Your friend needs to reframe her logistics/admin experience in hospitality as similar to office experience. So, for example she might have her overall role listed as "restaurant manager". But then in the sub sections she might include something like, "Office administration and logistics" and there she'd say things like, "Oversaw ensuring sufficient supplies coming from multiple areas including online ordering, invoice management, communication with suppliers, quality review... [as appropriate]"

Then in IT skills she needs to include any computer programs she can operate, obviously prioritising Microsoft programmes. if she's worked with a specific database she can say something like, "practised in database operation with specific experience in x/y/z".

2 separate issues. Even if the advert is improved they will probably still only get the JS token applicants - it's the way our benefit system is set up (having been on it myself before) and is ridiculous.

BUT if they improve the advert they might ALSO get actual good applicants that want a job - just at the moment they aren't bothering applying because there is so little detail supplied in the advert nobody who is honestly looking for work knows whether they want it or not so aren't bothering to apply. I wouldn't even bother looking at a job without a salary - you want me to spend a few hours putting a good application together, take half a day off work to go to an interview and only then tell me it pays less than the job I'm already doing?

Same with 'immediate start' - you've been waiting since December, you can wait a month for the right candidate to put in their notice!

How would your boss know the pay is the same as other similar roles in the area if they aren't putting their salaries on their adverts? And if other companies are frequently advertising similar roles, perhaps the 'standard' salary is too low and nobody is staying/sticking in those jobs.

A lot of bosses still think they're recruiting in 2019 when any amount of flexibility in terms of starting/finishing time put them ahead of the competitors. Now if you're advertising an admin job you're competing against companies who allow staff to WFH full time, so your pay/benefits have to reflect that. You can't compare them to jobs where you have to be there full time - shopworkers, teachers, police, etc because people pick their jobs dependent on what they like (going to a different place every day, lots of human interaction) or what works for their lifestyle.

You are hiring for an admin role, therefore you need to make your admin role MORE attractive than other admin roles if you want good applicants. Surely this is basic knowledge?

Decent candidates want to know what the job is offering them and they can choose to be picky. If you aren’t being transparent about salary I don’t see how you can complain about either the quality of candidates, or their level of motivation to interview.

99% of people work for the money so salary is important to them; and 100% of people don’t like to be dicked about so being coy about money is a big red flag.

the problem here is that advert (and the fact people aren’t desperate at the moment)

You say must have admin experience which I get BUT... a lot of people may never have worked in admin roles in an office but can easily have the necessary skills. Basic computer literacy, any customer service experience is not dissimilar etc. Admin experience does not have to come from being an actual PA.

Omg this! I have a good friend desperately trying to escape the hospitality industry. She doesn’t mind starting on a low salary, has tons of amazing customer skills, used to ordering systems etc, really great at logistics too actually, but can’t even get an interview due “ no office experience”
Its not the damn 90s people. Anyone can learn to use a database, or Outlook and most people spend half their time on little computers!

The Internet has made it too easy to apply for roles, leading to a proliferation of one-click applications which cost the candidate no time.ot thought.
Your job advertisement portal should allow you to add qualification questions which will filter out u suitable candidates. Also ask people to write a cover letter to accompany their application, this will also filter out the time wasters.
Niche role - assume you are paying an attractive rate then.

This is ridiculous. Unless you're hiring for ac contract, anyone coming for a job interview does so on the assumption that, all being well, they'll be in the job for a while. So saying no to people who are 60 is really no different to saying no to a woman who is 30 "in case she gets pregnant".

At the very least, there needs to be a salary range. Particularly if the job is "niche" and requires training. I need to know if it's worth all that before I do it.

You say must have admin experience which I get BUT... a lot of people may never have worked in admin roles in an office but can easily have the necessary skills. Basic computer literacy, any customer service experience is not dissimilar etc. Admin experience does not have to come from being an actual PA.

Been trying to recruit for a position since the middle of December. Had lots of applicants but none are suitable for the job!

When you say ‘been’, do you mean ‘I’ve been’ or ‘my company has been’ or ‘my boss has been’. Are you actually in charge of the recruitment process yourself?

To me as an applicant "immediate start" rings warning bells of scam jobs, boiler rooms, stuffing envelope jobs, etc. It sounds desperate so you'll take anyone. I'd be too wary to apply.

To me as an employee involved in recruitment, some people are just clueless about how they should be selling themselves. But yes, it does sound very much like you've got a load of applicants who have all been sent by the job centre so they won't get sanctioned. Doing everything they can to NOT get the job. I've been in your shoes and it's very frustrating. Some of those genuinely DO want to work, but know the job would be unsuitable for them. We had a very lovely blind guy kept applying to us because he was being made to, and by the end of it he'd just ring us and ask us could we write to the job centre and add it to his/our records once and for all that our jobs were unfortunately NOT possible for him.

I think your boss needs to realise the benefits of "you need to speculate to accumulate". You perhaps need a professional to write the job ad and/or recruiter to manage the whole thing. You also seen to be vague about it yourself, which I'm sure will also be hindering things slightly.

Where is the role advertised?
From what you've said I'm actually imagining it's those who have job search criteria to fulfil.
Travelling 2 hours for a part time role is not normal, unless incredibly well paid. Looking back at the last short shifts I was doing- was niche work and I was getting £450 a shift, my shifts worked out as an hour in office, almost 3 travelling (sadly rare opportunity that didnt last long!). I didn't mind that one bit, but if we're talking more like £13/14ph and being paid for 6 hours, and travelling almost as much time, unpaid... they're realistically not going to take the job, or stay there, even if they're the perfect fit otherwise.

That would be a topic to discuss in the interview process once you’ve sounded each other out and decided this might be a suitable opportunity. It does not belong on a cv.

It also raises the question, are the other local offices recruiting successfully? Because they might not be getting the staff they want either.

Not listing pay on a job advert is an instant no for me.

You need to research what the market in your local area pays for a similar role, you need to offer at least that and you absolutely have to put the salary on the ad.

As countless people have said, your problem is the pay is too low and not transparent. You said "The pay is apparently comparable to other offices in the same city." Well then why would an applicant favour you over the competition? What's unique about your role that would make someone want to join you? You need to make your position better than those available elsewhere - usually this means more money.

I would read niche as specialised and attracting a higher salary. It seems that niche here, doesn’t mean that?!

Agree re small firms. I've had one really positive experience in that kind of setup, and two that were absolutely awful. In kind of opposite ways to each other, but both were the kind of awful that you don't get in a larger org.

Ageism is rife, I am 61 and looking for a new job, convinced I am being rejected (or mostly just ignored) due to age.

@Kazzyhoward That’s a good point actually. Very early on in my career, I would’ve considered a small company. Now I don’t even look at places without either a large recognisable brand footprint or thousands of employees. If you’re in a fairly built-up area, that might be a problem you’re facing too.

The answer is super easy though. Labour is just like any other good and service: it has a price. And if you are not meeting that price you don't get labour.

Labour is odd with the price because it's not only about salary. It is about the terms & conditions (so flexibility, holiday, progression possibilities, bonus etc etc) And the quicker idiot bosses realise that, the better.

Yep, this. The role isn't particularly attractive, and probably won't be even if it's advertised in a way that doesn't make the company sound dodgy. The applicants that have come forward are the ones that the price justifies. Price obviously being about terms and conditions as well as the money.

The answer is super easy though. Labour is just like any other good and service: it has a price. And if you are not meeting that price you don't get labour.

Labour is odd with the price because it's not only about salary. It is about the terms & conditions (so flexibility, holiday, progression possibilities, bonus etc etc) And the quicker idiot bosses realise that, the better.

Can't remember which pp it was: I got a job at 59 (am now older) partly based on the experience i bring, it was acknowledged the whole time they were in discussion with me, that the experience i bring is naturally related to my age. (i was actually head-hunted for this). There are good 'uns out there.

Or you are expecting too much, not looking at transferable skills and aren't willing to retrain people (in this case the OP says they will provide training, but is there a reason you actually need experience in an office, when you might have good office tech skills from volunteering or even just helping your kids with schoolwork).

I learnt my Word skills volunteering on my student newspaper at university, but didn't have office skills when I went for my first office job. Someone has to give you a break.

But if you've said immediate start and people are on mat leave, that is a bit silly. Mind you, maybe they think the recruitment process will take so long (they often do) that mat leave will be over!

What everyone else has said - state the salary. If it's negotiable, state a salary range, but don't leave it out as people will assume it's min wage. If it is min wage and that's fair for the role, fine, but expect applicants to be either inexperienced or people looking for a stop-gap.

@Honeychickpea - actually @haXXor post reminded me of a not that small MANUFACTURING company I came across professionally, whose entire stock system was on one excel spreadsheet, saved on one desktop computer that was about 15 years old at the time. This was 10 years ago but I bet it hasn’t changed so I take back what I said originally 😂

Yep, lots of small firms, one man bands, etc., are prettily shoddily run. I'm an accountant, and we have at least a handful of clients every year who can't provide their book-keeping, spreadsheets, or invoices, because "their laptop died" or they "lost their phone", or "forgot the password" or other such incompetent nonsense! You have to live it to believe it.

That's despite us constantly reminding them to do backups, set up online storage, etc., constantly.

And yes, still have a few dinosaur clients using a desktop PC that looks like it's from the 80s running standalone systems like invoicing, stock control, etc., "because it works" and they're too tight to upgrade or too lazy to transfer data from an old system to a new one!

And yes, some still use hand written analysis books too!

For any new clients, we insist on them using proper cloud-based accounting software or we won't take them on as clients, but older clients who've been with us for 20/30 years just won't budge. Some even "explain" it's because they don't want to pay £30 per month for the subscription!

Some of these employ staff and probably break every employment law and H&L law, but they, and their staff, are in a "comfortable rut" so just rub along OK for whatever reason.

I'd never work in a small/private firm again, and made sure I got that message over to our son when he was job hunting at University for his first graduate job! There's just something awful about working day in, day out, with the person who is paying your wages. At least with bigger firms, there's a degree of separation between who owns the firm (whose money your wage comes from) and the people running it who are your direct bosses (employed managers etc) which provides a modicum of professionalism.