Not enough teachers are leaving

I refused to let my daughter take part in any interventions!

Ah okay I understand what you mean now. The tone was hard to grasp.

I work in a “good” oversubscribed secondary school and it is terrifying how much it has declined in a relatively short space of time. I think what you have suggested is already happening though. Anyone near retirement age has left, NQTs have lasted 1-2 years and have left for alternative careers, well-established and excellent teachers are talking about leaving or have already left. The situation is dire and only going to get worse.

I feel there should be more the unions could do.
Each burnt out teacher moving schools is too hard, but collectively, it feels as though we should be able to demand more.

I left 7 years ago, after 5 years in the classroom. It was bad then but unions were weak and turnout in union issues very low. Scabs were the worst- I hated fellow teachers telling me, when the union had voted for strike action, that they wouldn't be striking because 'its the kids who suffer '. GET OUT OF THE UNION THEN! If you're not prepared to stand with us, don't pretend! As if we're not all striking for the kids, and the whole future of the sector. As if one of your chemistry practicals stands between these children and an empty future. I don't think so, Mr Glassman.

In my "good" oversubscribed secondary school we have so many unfillable vacancies that every single student will have at least 2 supply teachers EVERY DAY.

Most Year 11 students have random supply teachers for 4+ of their GCSE subjects.

Supply teachers don't mark books so that work then gets added to a permanent teacher's workload without the time or money to compensate.

Then, when the GCSE results are not good enough (because the class had constant supply teachers) the Head of Department gets blamed and threatened with job loss for failing to sort it out with no staff.

Teachers are then told they must run after school interventions (AKA unpaid extra teaching) to make sure results don't bomb again next year.

The teacher burns out and can't cope with all the additional teaching hours ("intervention") plus all the additional marking to cover the supply teachers, so they quit for a job in the civil service where their new colleagues think they must be exaggerating the situation for comic effect because surely no one would put up with that??

That teacher's job is advertised with all the benefits we can offer which cost nothing (free croissants from Olio on Fridays!!) - and a couple of people come to look around but they cannot believe how terrible the behaviour is (due to gentle parenting, endemic poverty and lack of a functioning CAMHS?)... so no one applies for the job

That teacher's role is then replaced with ... another supply teacher.

The parents (understandably) email multiple complaints to the Headteacher about the constant supply teachers, lack of marking, terrible behaviour, low grades, lack of interventions, "stupid rules", lack of equipment, the fact that the building is too hot / cold / full of actual holes.

Eventually enough parents complain to OFSTED who inspect the school and they, too, find it lacking. The Head quits due to the stress. The Headteacher's job is advertised offering the world (well, free Olio croissants anyway). Potential candidates visit and can't believe how terrible the behaviour, staffing and environment is. So they don't apply and we don't have a Headteacher..

Rinse and repeat.

This is the last 12 months in our "Good" school in an affluent suburb.

I don’t understand your post. Schools are in a terrible state so you think the answer is teachers should leave? How would that fix anything?

Another one here who had senior SLT wfh!
I was an HLTA. Resigned due to poor behaviour, appalling SEN behaviour which wasn't addressed and appalling and entitled parental behaviour ( which really got my goat.)

Over twenty years . First ten years were wonderful and rewarding.
Last ten years was full of angst.

Education needs an overhaul ... desperately.

Child with PDA?

I think you have it wrong about those professions rolling their eyes. In my experience everyone is very together united against the government and their shocking policies and handling of the public sector.

You're paying all their salaries then? And you don't mind if it's YOUR child who gets a shit education while all this mass walk out goes on?

Having to enforce a multitude of new, ridiculous rules must have an impact on the ability of teachers to do their jobs? Policing whether or not kids are wearing their blazers on the field on a warm day, chasing up detentions for any and all tiny infringements must be exhausting and distracting. I think this kind of thing is what parents are railing against, not so much ending nappies or dummies, which is more neglect/poor parenting and probably follows sure start centres closing.

The hyperbole around teachers jobs also does nothing for parents sympathy. It seems unlikely most or even many regular teachers are regularly working 80 hours a week. That'd be 16 hours a day over 5 days, 13.3 hours a day over 6 days or 11.4 hours a day over 7 days. Are you telling me there's teachers getting to school at 7am, leaving at 6pm with no break, and then working at home a further 5 hours, say 9pm to 2am, five days a week, every week? Or working 3 hours every evening, seven days a week and then just under 12 hours 5 days a week? There might be the odd day like that but not continually, or certainly not a single teacher I know.

The narrative that teachers have literally the hardest job in the world does nothing to increase respect. Every parent who is a social worker, police officer, nurse, healthcare assistant, soldier, etc just rolls their eyes internally - many of us have it tough at work.

No one cares. If they leave, they will be replaced by cheaper alternatives or they will seek teachers overseas.

That's what has happened in the NHS - people left thinking that if they voted with their feet someone would notice/care and change the dangerous working conditions. As Therese Coffey said of staff leaving “It is their choice of course if they want to do that, but then we also have an open route for people to come into this country who are professional staff.”

You give an extreme example. Most schools are not like this, at all. Yes, there are challenges. But you paint an extremely bleak picture that doesn't reflect the vast majority of schools.
Most teachers also feel an obligation to the kids. For too many kids, the school environment is the only consistent thing in their life - the only time adults encourage them, or where they feel warm or safe. Even for kids with lovely home lives, teachers often feel really invested in their futures; most won't just walk out.
I agree no teacher should put up with the kind of chaos you describe, or with 80hr weeks. In reality, that's not what most teachers' days are like and a huge number great great satisfaction from their work, despite the many tough parts.

There is troubles in schools there are also parents who never believe their child causes trouble and blame schools for the issues

I wonder if there is a connection

''Gryce Pudding'' the Head in 'Kes'.
This was the norm in the past..it's gone from the one extreme to the other.

The Head is so say very accurate from those who lived in that era in tough 'Secondary modern' schools.

(Btw I’m talking about ‘that’ type of parent homeschooling, I know not all home schoolers let their kids watch telly all day!)

Oh yeah, that's the answer! You're a genius @sharptoothlemonshark! There aren't enough teachers and in 2023 only 62% of the necessary amount of people signed up to train to be teachers (with the number as low as 17% for secondary Physics and equally abysmal for several other subjects) but hey, let's encourage the ones we've got to fuck off.

I wonder that too.. I'm honestly amazed at what parents put up with. And I'm one of them. And as there is no collective action from parents about the state of education, parents are left with two options: homeschooling or sending their children to a 'better' (a bit less crap) school. But.. from a parent's point of view sometimes the issues we / our children face are not the same as the issues the teacher's face - though obviously there will be some overlap.

The problem begins with parents. Our local Facebook parenting group is rammed full of posts by parents proud of ‘bucking the system’ by refusing to co-operate in bringing up a disciplined, educated, appropriately capable child. They don’t want to do anything that even resembles parenting if it’s remotely challenging, saying the child ‘isn’t ready’ or they don’t want to upset them. Hence we have swathes of 4 year olds starting school in nappies and with a dummy in their mouth, unable to put their own shoes on or even follow an instruction. And when the school want to spend their time teaching rather than changing soiled clothing, the parents refuse to engage and decide to ‘home school’ aka letting them watch Numberblocks all day. Because the teachers were nasty apparently and wouldn’t let little Johnny/Jennifer ‘go at their own pace’.

I commend every teacher dealing with such nonsense. Rather than expecting them to leave their jobs we should be holding parents to account.

Also parents complaining over stupid things like their kid feels bad they scored so low. Well, they didn't do any revision and paid no attention in class if they were even in school so what do you expect?

I mean .. I agree with you but if the teacher had done that then there's be loud parental complaints about her "bullying" little Jonny who's never been told what to do as his parents are "gentle parents".

That kind of woke bullshit parenting is why teachers are leaving in droves.

It's not the teachers or the teaching. It's society normalising bad behaviour, excuses for everything, parents either don't care / care too much in the wrong way so they don't want their precious child to follow the rules on the low end, threaten to sue the school on the high end.
Parents need to back schools and ofsted / camhs/ social Work also need to back schools and value education.