To take my child to a therapist

@gelatodipistacchio any update on your situation? Have you gone to Family Court?

The thing is I never said a single word to the court welfare officer. I was 10 at the time. I remember playing games and that’s it. From that she not only stopped him ever seeing me again but also his entire family and helped us move to a safe location hundreds of miles away.

you’re not going to be a bad mum by telling him to take you to court. Then at court you can say your dd has been saying these things and you’ve been really concerned. Engage with cafcass and mediation if offered, say you’re happy for contact to be supervised and a third party involved for handover. You’re not saying you don’t want her to have any contact, you’re saying you’re concerned because of what she’s said and want to act in her best interests to make sure nothing untoward is going on.

If there’s not a court order in place why not get one in place that protects dd with supervised contact

Tandora - I wrote more than one post. My subsequent post/s respond to your points

@Woush

It's terrifying to think you may actually be a DSL

What are you talking about? Your post doesn’t even make sense. OP does believe her child- her child says she hates her dad and he’s mean to her, and is distressed after spending time with him . It’s you who are saying this child shouldn’t be believed , as apparently it’s normal for children to say this about their parents.

What OP is describing isn’t the least bit normal.

instead of believing the child, you apparently sense “parental alienation”, based on no evidence whatsoever. https://www.womensaid.org.uk/parental-alienation-a-dangerous-and-harmful-concept/
This is exactly why we have a court system that forces children to have contact with abusive men.

Omg how utterly awful.

Solidarity , OP , I’m so sorry you and your DD are going through this.

Also important to say (excuse my blunt language) that shit parenting is not abusive behaviour.

• No parent is perfect.
• Every parent will have occasions when they do shit parenting.

• Non ideal parenting does not make it abusive or neglectful.
• people parent in different ways and have differing thoughts on achiving the best outcomes for their children. Just because it's not what you'd do, doesn't make it abusive.

My daughter literally told me that I am the only person she trusts, though I have encouraged her to open up with other adults whom she should trust and who have been made available to her. She shuts down and refuses to disclose as a way to protect herself and have some control over her life.

I appreciate that and 1 million percent believe that is your truth.

What parents in similar situations often don't appreciate is that their children will often be entirely open and candid with me (or colleagues) and be very clear that they cannot say what they have told me, to Mum/Dad. These children know how devestated Mum/Dad will be with their own truth, so they say to each parent what the child think the parent wants to hear.

It's not unusual that I face a situation where Mum is 100% sure child is being harmed by Dad. And Dad is 100% sure child is being harmed by Dad. Neither Mum nor Dad is exaggerating or being dishonest. Then when I (or colleagues) spend time with the child - the child will be clear that neither Mum or Dad are causing harm.

It's often the child wanting to please both parents because they love and seek approval from both. The parent will say they dont lead the child or ask leading questions, but it's not as simple as that. Children inherently want both parents to be happy and so it takes proactive and deliberate positivity towards other parent for child to feel confident in their honesty. It's not a parents fault they can't give that positivity - it's often near impossible. But understanding your bias is important and a step all separated parents could take.

I have to offer the obvious caveat that some children are being harmed. Thankfully that is very rare though. And often when they are, if there are no verbal disclosures there will be multiple non verbal signs. So make school aware of your worries. Then if they do see non-verbal concerns, they have the extra info. But equally be ready to know that it's possible your child is seeking to confirm your bias in order to gain your approval - which isn't actually a true reflection of their lived experience.

This is me. DSL means Designated Safeguarding Lead - a member of staff in school with responsibility for keeping children safe in education.

For the avoidance of doubt, a DSL is not involved in the courts decision to grant contact and access arrangements, as is being implied.

My best advise is to offer the children lots of safe opportunities to disclose their feelings and worries to trusted adults. School is ideally placed for this. But you need to accept that the children should be believed, even if it isn't what a parent wants to hear - if the child isnt disclosing any harm and alongside this doesn't show any non-verbal concerns, then school DSL will believe them. So will social care. So will CAFCAS and the courts. The key is to maintain that ongoing safe space to talk about worries and feelings, and to be vigilant of non-verbal concerns. That isn't just asking the child one time and getting an answer. It's building trust and developing open conversation with the child. DSLs and similar nurture groups or mentors at school are very good at getting to the genuine voice of the child - even when what the child's voice says isn't want the mum or dad wants to hear.

I didn't realise when i wrote my earlier post that you'd not already been to court for access arrangements OP. I assumed a court order was in place for contact, which was why you were worrying.

If you do not have court mandated access and you have safeguarding concerns, you can exercise your PR and stop allowing contact with father. He would then need to go to court to get access. That will buy you some time, plus maybe he won't go to court anyway? From what you describe here, if he does go to CAFCAS and court, and the children continue as they are - ie not disclosing harm in a trusted space, then courts would likely mandate access with both parents. Because the child's voice is heard and believed.

I get you don't want to hear that. Most of my job is telling parents things they don't want to hear. It is important these hard conversations are had though.

And XelaM - if every child (especially teen) that told the DSL that hated their Mum/Dad was then told they could no longer see their parent - there would be a lot of children put in care. And many, many devestated families. Decisions of such a serious nature are never arbitrary black and white like that.

Just to say to that poster who claims to be DSL and thinks it's normal for kids to say they hate their parents and have these extreme reactions to being forced to see them - it's really not!!

My ex-husband is an absolutely useless parent who comes in and out of my daughter's life and then disappears again every few years. He's a real piece of work and she doesn't particularly like him, but she would never have a meltdown if asked to see him - that's so not normal!!!! Also she would never say she hates him (or me) - again totally not normal over the top reaction and spending time with her dad should not be so traumatic!!

There is something wrong here. Please listen to your child OP!

LISTEN TO YOUR CHILD AND STOP SENDING HER!!

this is what I would be dealing with when he inevitably took it to court.

Which is months down the line and totally irrelevant to whether you send your child to be abused by her father tomorrow.

Stop her going there and give her a break. You may find once the pressure is off she will start to open up about things. Perhaps with a therapist, but it isn't a case of therapising her into being ok to go there.

I'm stunned at you being so defeated in a situation that hasn't even happened yet

You need to prioritise the here and now, not the whatabout.

It may well turn out that months down the line contact is restored, but your daughter will have been safe for a long time before that happens and toy will have had the chance to help her talk and process what happened which will also serve as 'ammunition' if it eventually does go to court.

It really won't. It happens all the time that one parent moves away with the child and resists all contact. There is not that much that can be done to force contact

If doorstep arguments are upsetting her (and they’d upset any child) then please use a 3rd party for handover as this will be causing the most damage

You do not get to make that choice. If you constantly fail to adhere to the terms of court orders, the end resilt can be losing custody.