9 year old lying finally told truth

I believe you OP. It sounds incredibly hard. I’m glad your DD has a new teacher and hope this continues to help. I don’t want to offer advice as this sounds so complex and I’m not an expert. I also think it may be worth considering ASD.

You wrote ‘I don’t know why I’m so upset about it’. I do! You’ve been through an absolutely awful time and I really feel for you.
It almost sounds like she knows that if she says something bad against you at school then she gets a whole lot of attention and is taken out of class and it all becomes about her.
Like you also said, you are also her safe space - she knows you will always be there for her, which to be honest is pretty awful for you but deep down she obviously knows that you will keep her safe. This may seem horrible, but perhaps if she realised the trouble that you could be in (ie arrested) and she had to spend a night away from you, it may help her to realise that her actions have consequences.
I really hope that her new teacher is able to give her support at school.

Yes, particularly as it seems to me this child may have high functioning autism. That kind of experimenting with how much power they can wield - is common and can be very damaging to those around. Mainly because the child doesn't have full cognitive understanding of the consequences to those affected.

I’m so sorry for this op- I hope it gets resolved for you soon. I was struck by you saying ‘fibs’- these are more than just fibs!! How awful for you - I’d be explaining that her lying like this causes you hurt. Ask her if that’s what she wants? We don’t hurt those we love. X

OP this sounds so incredibly stressful. All I can say is that I absolutely recommend some kind of play therapy, that really helped my DS (he wasn't lying but had terrible rage due to the divorce in part). It was a long slow process though but certainly helped.
He still (now a teen) struggles though with accountability. If he does anything wrong he tries to deflect by saying things like someone else did something to provoke it etc. I recently got somewhere in a conversation with him on this and it seems it's partly due to the fact in school they make kids say sorry when they are not sorry and don't always get to the bottom.of a situation eg a scrap between 2 kids so just break up the figt or whatever and punish both kids. DS has a very strong sense of right and wrong so gets annoyed if he's blamed and it's not his fault. However the consequences are that he can't see or accept his part in any situation. And he sees things like "sorry" as meaningless.

Absolutely not the same as your situation but just to say that it may be worth looking at the wider school situation, how they discipline the kids, how they approach disagreements or bad behaviour. It could be a factor in your DD responses and behaviour.

Good luck with it all. Sounds v stressful for you

Oh OP I am so sorry, what a hellish time you've been through. I just wanted to say that I'm a teacher and I taught a little girl a decade or so back who did exactly this. Would tell me she would be chained up to a shed at home, was regularly hit/ kicked/ screamed at etc. The accusations were totally wild. We of course followed the appropriate channels, but it was patently obvious she was lying. Lies would also go home about school - she'd say she'd been locked in the cupboard all day/ hadn't been allowed lunch etc. In this case, the child eventually received an ASD diagnosis. She was very high functioning and masked a lot at school, but her 'outlet' wasn't meltdowns or something more typical, it was lying. It always produced a reaction from adults, good or bad, which I assume she craved. We put in a huge number of strategies to help regulate her in school, and things did improve. It sounds like your DD has a great teacher, I think your idea of EDMR is a good one and I think you sound like an absolutely amazing mother ♥️

Agree with @Josette77 - there is a difference between a child feeling ashamed of something they have done and ashamed of who they are. The latter is healthy, the former is unhealthy. In fact, feeling ashamed of poor behaviour but understanding that poor behaviour does not define one's entire personality is a big part of integrating the negative and positive aspects of ourselves into a whole self, so that we can accept we are flawed but also try to make amends when we do something that is wrong.
Shame can be a very useful emotion; it helps us to regulate our behaviour and informs our conscience. It's only a problem if a person feels it simply for existing.

So so sorry for what you’ve been through. I want to share this with you in the hope that it can be helpful for you.

So I was your DD. It wasn’t serious so young but I definitely said things as a teenager that weren’t true and got flagged about my lovely parents to SS or made my teenage boyfriends look shit. I also used to desperately wish I was seriously ill in hospital. Ironically, I was never able to confide in my parents about life stuff and held them at arms length and have an abject terror of being ill.

I had undiagnosed ASD and actually life was agony for me. I masked exceptionally well and did well at school. Literally NO ONE picked it up. But I was constantly exhausted and in emotional pain from every day life, didn’t understand why everyone felt like this. I looked ahead and saw a life of loneliness and struggle, whilst teachers and my parents predicted a sparkling future based off my straight As. It made no sense to me.

Even as an adult who had the ASD diagnosed at 24, I look back and can’t see what I expecting to achieve? I obviously didn’t confide in my parents who could have helped, I told lies to anyone and everyone… I was too emotionally immature to think through the consequences or even understand that people would see I was lying (I was a long long way behind my peers in terms of emotional understanding so even in to my late teens). I do however, remember the pain I was in and the craving of being looking after and protected for how hard the world felt so I can only assume it was simply a confused cry for help.

I was diagnosed at 24, it was a complete relief to me and I have not lied since. I have no need to. I rest when I am tired and look after myself when the world is too much and have a lovely DH who makes me feel looked after. It took years for my family to believe me however and I’m still not sure they do. I cringe when I look back at my behaviour but I also vividly remember the pain I was in and feel for that little girl who was so lost and confused.

I have a happy relationship, a good job, a lovely life and a good relationship with my parents. I live my life as an autistic person and am happier for it. I would not have any of those things without understanding my ASD and why life was so hard for me.

Sorry again for what you are going through, you can make of this what you will, but I thought sharing would be helpful.

I disagree.

This child could have cost a teacher their career, and OP her freedom.

I think the child feeling guilty and ashamed of her actions is appropriate in these circumstances.

She shouldn't feel guilty for the rest of her life, but some emotional discomfort is ok.

Each time she lies about someone there should be a consequence.

Bloody hell OP you have absolutely been through the mill. It must be such a relief it’s been resolved, and no wonder that’s causing everything to bubble up now. It’s remarkable you’ve coped so well.

I’m really glad you’ve had good support - the key thing now is you as a family get therapeutic support (separately and possibly together) to move forward. I would say to your SW that you cannot all walk away from this and be fine, everyone needs some counselling to work through the trauma and some help to heal the family dynamics. It’s obviously hard to you to regain authority, which you need to for both kids to feel secure.

I know how stretched things are, but this is an unusual situation, so I would prioritise speaking to your SW about this.

Kids do make up stories, but your daughter’s comment about having dominance might indicate it’s more than this. She may need some intervention to help her learn empathy, and you need some help as to how to talk to her about moral boundaries and responsibility.

I’m so glad things are getting better and do get some help.

@Josette77 - the OP could do more damage talking to her daughter like this. This needs professional help to manage. It’s an unusual and tricky situation.

There needs to be a consequence every time she lies. So she tells a lie, privileges go e.g. tablet or whatever else. Have high expectations of behaviour but act immediately with any negative behaviour, don’t be worn down by crying and hysterics. Take the power back.

i think you have ignored her lying for many years and try to be too nice to her and now she does hold all the power.

Why on earth are you dressing her just because her brother needs help?

Why didn’t you tell her that lies have consequences when she came home lying about teachers many years ago?

You’re her parent not her friend.

This is a tricky and unusual situation.

In regards to the dominance comment, when she has told these lies, has she had any form of telling off/consequences?

I understand that she's only 9 and there are clearly issues, but to tell such damaging lies and then say she has the power at home sounds like she is almost getting what she wants/getting away with telling these lies.

Have you been worried to tell her off about her behaviour etc? For example, the investigation with the teacher is quite serious and could damage that person career/mental health. Let alone what you've been going through.

In regards to a previous poster saying you shouldn't tell her you may get arrested/taken away by police, the child is old enough to be told the potential consequences, although I wouldn't say its just unfair for DS as there's clearly some sort of jealousy there and she may also think she is able to punish you/him.

Hey OP. I'm not an expert but it seems to me that your DD lies because as she said, it gives her power. She gets in trouble for poor behaviour, then lies about you, and like magic the focus is shifted from her poor behaviour to the wrongs you have allegedly committed. Suddenly she is receiving sympathy and being taken seriously. I think you need to bring in a child psychologist to investigate why she feels so powerless and see if there are ways you can help strengthen her feelings of autonomy. She has poor impulse control and seems to think and feel in the short-term; try to help her understand long-term consequences of her actions better. Also, don't talk about the impact of her actions on DS so much. She is unlikely to be moved by this as there is clearly a lot of resentment for her brother and competition with you for his attention. Make her understand what her actions mean for herself, what could happen if you lose your job or get arrested or if she is removed from the household etc.
Her behaviour also seems avoidant of negative emotions. This can be worsened by a parent not being consequent or attempting to shield their child from emotional discomfort. I'm not saying you should administer draconian punishments but you MUST respond strongly to her behaviour and tell her in no uncertain terms that it is wrong. If she manages to fend off consequences for poor behaviour at school only to get them at home she will be disincentivised to lie at school. Conversely if she manages to avoid consequences at school by lying about you only to receive love and cuddles at home, you are basically rewarding for lying. Think about the goal your dd is trying to achieve by lying, then prevent that goal from being achieved. This may help her stop lying. Also talk to the school about her lies and explain that they must not respond to her claims in a way that allows her to avoid consequences for poor behaviour.
Good luck OP.

@IWantOut29 the school and the new class sounds like it is very positive.

I think with self esteem it is what's happening on the inside, a child may be outwardly confident and happy to perform in front of others, yet inside it can be totally different.

@IWantOut29 it sounds like you have a lovely relationship with your DD. And that you put a great deal of thought into both your DC happiness and wellbeing.

Does the school have any support you could use?

I think it’s really relevant here that you and the children had to leave a DV situation and move areas. How old was she at the time? Did she witness the abuse? These experiences could have been very traumatic for her and may explain some of her behaviour. Has she had counselling for this?

@Josette77 A child feeling ashamed is something to be avoided, they don't have the brain capacity or emotional maturity to deal with it, it just makes them feel worthless and damages self esteem.

This is heartbreaking. 💔

Op I would be clear with her that lying is not just saying silly things. Her lies could have gotten you or someone else arrested!

It's ok to be mad at her. You should be mad her, and she should feel ashamed.

I know how hard that is too watch, but she needs to feel that so she does better in the future.

Shame is an appropriate emotion for her to feel.

The dominance statement is concerning. Is she in therapy?

If she lies again about you or anyone else there should be consequences. No TV or computer, or whatever it is she likes to do.

My friend's recently been through something very, very similar with her DD, early teens. I won't say any more because it's not my story to tell. I just wanted you to know you're not completely alone in this!

Of course, I have a good idea of how ghastly this is for you and how disturbing for any other siblings. Hugs

I personally wouldn't keep telling her that if she lies again the police can take her away and she wouldn't see you for a long time. 9 is still so young and you don't want to put her in a position where she is scared of telling the truth about something incase someone may think she is lying.

Definitely look into professional help. Do you think she is maybe feeling angry or a lack of control at home so she wants to punish you.

I would give her lots of positive praise when she does anything that warrants it and don't let her feelings of guilt and shame continue.