9 year old lying finally told truth

My daughter is a compulsive liar and has told people I've hurt her, starved her, forced her to care for her siblings, the house work etc. her lures were limitless when she was younger. At 18 she was diagnosed with EUBPD and even at the beginning of that appointment , the psychiatrist came out and shouted at me for leaving a suicidal 18 yo in charge of a new born baby while my DH and I jetted off on holiday for 3 weeks and left her with zero resources. This was the first and only appointment I'd been allowed to come to and it was unexpected but she missed her bus. Hence me driving her and sitting in the waiting room.

Anyway, I was sat there open mouthed as the Dr told me off and I lost it, I started laughing hysterically and pointed out that

• we went away for 4 nights
• we don't have a newborn baby
• her siblings (age 7,10, 15) were with family around the corner
• she was actually looking after my birds and I paid her £80
• we had zero idea about any suicidal issues but they only tended to pop up when she'd been caught out lying.

So I went into the room with the Dr and my daughter and I told them the entire truth about her behaviour. They asked about her past. Her dad used to beat the break out of me and I didn't leave until she was 2 1/2-3 and so she saw/heard a lot. That's when she was diagnosed. She's 25 now and still lies but it is lessening. This week she had pneumonia but then was pissed off when the same day I couldn't look after her kids while she went bowling 🤷🏼‍♀️. But she only had pneumonia as I have it regularly in the winter. If I told her I had testicular cancer next week then she would have it the week after. She seems to lack a personality of her own and magpies other people's ailments and hobbies etc. She's a hypochondriac . But, she's taking tentative steps to start therapy which she desperately needs so I have to do my best to support her and be there for my grandkids.

EUBPD is quite common in females that have been through childhood trauma and the loss of a parent.

I tried that and it didn't work! (Android)

I'm another one who thinks this calls for more than counselling.

With ADHD it is not that unusual to lie to get out of things and give no thought to the consequences - and low self esteem will be at play here no matter how confident she appears at home. Some people with ADHD develop lying as a coping mechanism for anxiety - I would highly expect she is also very anxious although this might not be obvious to you either as I expect she is a master at covering it all up and perhaps even appearing overly confident.

I think escaping DV will have been extremely traumatic for her and on top of being ND it is all coming out in very problematic ways. Right now I'd be very worried about where this could be leading as she heads towards her teen years.

I'd start thinking about seeing if you can get a psychologist to work with her - but no doubt there would be a long wait or it would be very expensive. I wonder if school would be able to get an ed psych involved now that she has made serious accusations at school? That would be my first port of call.

Handhold, OP. You're been through and are still going through a terrible time. No advice but I think you would all benefit from counselling - you, DD, and DS too. Maybe some individual and some group sessions. There's a lot to work through.

Wishing you all the very best.

I just wanted tell you that I know of another child with ASD who made accusations of being beaten at home.

I think the fact your DD has been struggling so much at school is the key here and what you ought to focus on. If she's been vomiting every day and threatening to kill herself she is in serious distress. See how things go with the changes at school and the counsellor but I think you might want to consider getting her more support e.g. child psychologist.

Your daughter is seriously struggling and her accusations are a symptom of that. I think you need to focus on making sure she is getting the support she needs for ASD and is coping better with school and life

@IWantOut29 Please keep note of @nomoremsniceperson 's superb and accurate reply.
It has pulled into sharp focus exactly what is likely happening in your daughter's mind.

I'd say this answer is bang on the money.

Your daughter is highly manipulative, and you will be doing her no favours by mollycoddling while letting her be a bully to her brother and making all your lives an utter misery with her tissue of lies.

As a child, her making allegations will be taken seriously as she is a child, but as an adult, people won't care as much, and she could be in serious criminal trouble for lying.

When she is an adult, then what?
Will she be making up lies about men doing things to her?
Crying wolf is very dangerous.

She could end up in serious trouble as an adult liar.

Lying can become compulsive, 'rewarding' behaviour...She lies, and suddenly gets all the attention.

She sounds very jealous of her brother- but most siblings have to share their mother's love.

You pandering to her by 'helping to dress her' because your son needs genuine help in this regard is not doing any of you any favours.

It must be exhausting, but do take note of the post that @nomoremsniceperson made, and follow it- she sounds like she has professional experience of these behaviours.

Wow that’s a whole lot to deal with op and must be so hard. The truth is out now and now she needs support to help her learn to be honest in the future. They need to support her and you to get to the bottom of why this has happened. I’d be asking social work to try and get her diagnosis fast tracked as she is obviously a clever girl and perhaps knowing you have x this is why you feel y may be helpful to her.

Id be asking the school to record the incidents before these statements. If they link in with her having a meltdown in class/playground then there would be a link to the trigger. Could she perhaps feel that she is in trouble and to deflect then telling these tales so that people then feel sorry for her as opposed to angry at her for her earlier outburst?

I honestly cannot imagine how scary and hurtful it must be for you. I’ve known of a few cases like this, the truth always came out but the road there and in one case the results would not give u reassurance.
I truly wish you the best of luck in this next stage and hope that you feel supported by the school, SW and the police.

Poor child sounds like she's been traumatised by something in her younger years

Is she having intense psychological support? If you all fled DV, it’s not a big stretch to understand why she’s looking for power and attention, look what her lies have led to! Adult upon adult upon adult hanging off every word and validating her power. Has she seen a therapist, as opposed to counselling? What you’ve all been through is huge, and some therapy alone and together as a family should be in place. It’s good that these allegations are being investigated and believed but it’s not going to stop as long as she’s getting the power and validation from it. Has she been referred to CAMHS?

OP- hugging and kissing are easy parts of loving a child .Setting and maintaining hard boundaries and consistent consequences are just as much part of loving a child

She needs a diagnosis prior to going to secondary. If this carries on once she's a teenager it will be much harder to manage. I would prioritise nagging the social worker about getting her diagnosis speeded up, and put pressure where you can to achieve this (or even think about private diagnosis).

The diagnosis itself might not explain everything and of course most people with ASD/ADHD don't all lie, but her impulsivity and black and white thinking may well be connected in with her neurodiversity, it may also be a maturity issue (one of mine lied up til about this age).

If a child, ND or not, is mature enough to understand that they can do things to retain power and control at home and in school then they are mature enough to understand the potential consequences of their actions.
You, your DS, teachers and other pupils should not be walking on eggshells and pandering to this

Id be inclined to find a counsellor that’s got experience of children who have witnessed DV, because a lot of these tactics are common in an abusive relationship and it looks like she has learned that you can manipulate, lie and bully people into doing what you want them to do.

A conversation is needed about the fact she lied, that she hurt people and it wasn’t ok at all, but now the slate is wiped clean. A new beginning.

Don’t focus on the lies but make sure she knows you know she is lying. “Don’t be ridiculous, that isn’t true at all”. Strong boundaries, with consequences related to the crime if possible. Positive reinforcement when possible.

Don’t let her drama get her any attention at all. Focus on the behaviour you want. Don’t let her control you. You allow her to do things on your time scale, if you are happy with it.
Once an asd child realises they can pull all the strings, then things get progressively worse, I’ve seen that at happen work. Behaviour is fine at school where controlling behaviour isn’t tolerated but the parents give in at home until it reaches crisis point. At that point, there is little help available because behaviour is fine at school.
I know school is the issue in your case op. Hopefully the new teacher etc will help. But you do need to be careful about letting her rule the roost at home too. Give her as much agency and control as she wants in some areas, but maintain some hard lines. Decide where those lines are, and be consistent and fair.

You sound as if you give her lots of love. That’s great, but boundaries and consequences are needed too. Push for all the outside help you can and definitely check to see if asd is at play too.

I disagree with others saying not to tell her you could go to jail. Yes she may have ND but she needs to be told what can happen in an age appropriate way.

The child made the comment about having dominance, she has some understanding of what she is doing, although not the severity of it. You have reacted by giving her lots of affection, which seems to be what she is after due to jealousy of her brother.

Not only has she spread lies about you but a teacher as well. You say she lies so much about her brother you don't know what's real. You need to take away a tablet/toy/etc every time she lies about her brother.

What actions have the school put I place now? The staff will surely want to protect themselves now she's admitted to lying. What would you have done if the teacher had lost their job/resigned or worse, before discovering your daughter had lied? Obviously you must support your daughter but for all this to continue happening without any form of consequence is only going to encourage her behaviour.

What does your mother say about her lying? You mentioned that your mother said she thought the school shouldn't have investigated it, and yo said you understand the safeguarding procedures, but does your mother understand the severity of the lies? Not just about you but the teacher as well?

I have only skimmed some comments but as far as I can tell no one is supporting shaming or guilt tripping the child, but some form of appropriate consequences need to be enforced from now on. It sounds like the school and social are putting things in place to support her, hopefully some form of therapy will be added.

As an example, if the situation was that your child was bullying another child, what action would you take? Surely you wouldn't be hugging her and telling her it's OK?

I understand this has been from fear of her then telling more lies about you but from an outside point of view, she has managed to gain the power in your relationship.

Also, i would not be giving her EXTRA help because she is jealous of her brother needing more support. If possible i would try separate 1:1 time with each of them.

Also, I'm not trying to criticise or judge you, it's a horrible situation to be in and we all cope differently. Just as an outsider it seems like your daughter has been given positive reinforcement for lying by getting a new fun class and lots of hugs and attention from you

You can change your vote! Just tap on the one you want!

That sounds so stressful. I would be getting camera's installed in your home, so that you can prove she's not being hit.

She doesn't like school because she can't rule the roost like she does at home. Whenever she was in trouble at school, she made up these stories to deflect
Saying 'I am the one with dominance' was a clear threat to you.That is basically domestic abuse

I understand your fears, but you need to be brave and really nip this very dangerous attitude in the bud.
I very strongly abvise youvto give her severe consequences to show her that YOU are the one in charge not her.Tell her about the boy who cried wolf, be very clear about the very serious nature of her behaviour
Finally, stop babying her.Get her in her own bed and don't have any truck with her whining about you playing favourites whenever you try and do something nice with your boy.More manipulation!

How exactly is the OP or anyone else for that matter supposed to ensure that her 9 year old beloved, vulnerable daughter is able to, or learns how to distinguish between the two types of "shame" that you recognise?
After all most many adults can't manage that distinction.

Edited because I highlighted to the wrong person!

Your kid needs guidance. You’re clearly full of love but she’ll end up being a horrible person if you continue to allow her to behave like this. Every single time she lies you should sit her down and explain exactly the impact this has on each person. She needs to learn to care about other people.

Neither you nor your son's emotional wellbeing are incidental in this. You both have as much right to a worry free life as your daughter. Her behaviour would have broken me, so kudos to you on your resilience! this.
Also don't understand the 'don't tell her what could have been the consequences for her behaviour, it'll be upsetting for her'
But it would be the truth?

This ^^

Please do not try to shame or punish a 9 year old child over something as emotionally charged as this.

In fact I am not sure that trying to shame anyone is particularly beneficial, but definitely not vulnerable people - which includes children.

People with autism are not a different species, they are capable of emotion and not more likely to lie. It seems some people on here want to excuse any behaviour. It's not helpful really. It won't help these children cope as adults.

You sound like a really thoughtful, loving, caring mum. It must have been very difficult to go through all of this, very stressful and anxiety causing.

I think the DV must have had an effect on your DD. I am really struck by her comment about her saying 'I've got all the dominance in the house now' and about what you said about how she mistreats her younger DS if she is jealous or annoyed by him, and how he is scared of her. It's all about ways she has found to gain control and power over you both.

It might be worth her spending some time with a Child Psychologist unpicking the effect of the DV on her.

Really astute post @AriannasGuitarCase.

And this bit is particularly bang on:

"As usual on MN, there's lots of comments from PP who ignore the Autism and give advice based on NT kids. That's why I think finding a Child Pyschologist who is trained in ND is important and could really help your dd work through her feelings".

@Sapphire387 completely agree. I remember when my step son told horrific lies to social workers and the psychologists said we must not punish the child for telling lies and we should be understanding. If this is what professionals are making people believe then what hope do kids have? They are making parents too afraid to actually parent. Back when I was younger, my life literally wouldn't have been worth living if I had told such lies. I would have been very seriously disciplined.