People ending their lives?

It used to be that everything possible would be done to avoid saying that someone had killed themselves. For instance my grandmother completed suicide in 1985 after trying on and off for 50 odd years (due to severe MH issues). Even though it was totally obvious what she had done, her death was recorded as death by misadventure as it 'couldn't be proved' that was her intention.

@MillicentMaybe well clearly you do think you're special, it's great your health & your life are good, but how about you let other people make their own decisions about their own lives? She's not suggesting any one does it.

Suicide has never been rare, not even in my grandparents lifetime and they were born 100+ years ago. But it was a lot more taboo up until quite recently and was even illegal at one time. Thankfully people talk about it more, they discuss mental health more, there is more sympathy. But we have a long way to go in society and mental healthcare is woeful and just getting worse. Waiting lists longer than ever and services overwhelmed.

One of my relatives caused serious trauma to strangers when they took their own life (think train tracks)
My other relative seriously traumatised and endangered others (motorway bridge) They did it knowing that other people would get hurt. It was a complete shock, but it came to light afterwards that they'd been planning it for months and had the presence of mind to get all of their financial affairs in order.
I believe that they were in mental turmoil, but theyd never even attempted to get help or told anyone how they were feeling. Seeing the clarity in which they came to the decision, the things they did to prepare over months and yet still decide to destroy the lives of their loved ones and potentially strangers, it's very hard not to agree with the analogy.

Indeed

Back in the day (even up to the 60s I THINK) survivors of suicide attempts were put in prison for the Act.
Like they needed Prison on top of whatever else drove them to the brink of death by their own hand
Awful

I take life in five year increments at this point. Disability and chronic illness has meant that, for me, that's reality. Makes it easier to face it all and try my best to make life worthwhile. But I have no desire to be here if the illness takes away every bit of my quality of life and mental health. That would be meaningless.

A terrorist commits their crimes with the sole purpose of deliberately injuring or killing as many other people as they can. They are not in pain, they are trying to make a political statement. It's not remotely comparable because the intentions are entirely different.

I'm like you

Please can you send me the link to the website?

I can remember when suicide was rare

No, you can just remember when suicide was rarely talked about. That's not the same thing.

As the first reply in this thread shows, the suicide rate is much lower than it was in the 70s and 80s. It's just less of a stigmatised subject so is talked about more, and of course people are keen to reduce the rate further by raising awareness of it.

I would also add that the suicide rate in the 70s/80s was probably actually quite a bit higher than we think, because it used to be quite common for coroner's verdicts to be given as something different like 'accidental death' in certain types of suicide case, usually ones where the main breadwinner had left behind a spouse and children who would not receive a life insurance pay-out if the deceased was ruled to have died by suicide.

It's certainly talked about more but I don't think it was necessarily less common in years gone by.

Two of my friends had lost their fathers to suicide. They weren't really allowed to talk about it as it was too shameful, their families said.

Another friend took an overdose in front of me when we were at school. The school refused to give them any help other than allow a teacher to escort them to hospital for a stomach pump. I was told to not be upset by it and stop being silly. Nobody wanted to say "suicide" as that didn't happen in a nice place with nice people.

I do think there are more people in desperate situations. Just finding no way out or if they have tried to access help and haven't had any or it hasn't helped then there is a desperation not to have failed. There is more talk about mental health and how we can improve it, but the implicstion that if you haven't improved then you've failed which can create a viscious circle.

I'm so sorry for all those affected, and who haven't been able to talk about it.

Oh just because I’m special.

🙂

Anyway, it’s a stupid thing to say, nobody has any idea how they’ll feel when they get older. I have a happy and full life, with a wonderful family, lots to keep me busy, and able to do what I like when I like these days. I have friends in nursing homes with dementia, but I also have friends still travelling the world still going to rock concerts (me till very recently).

Three male friends have died by suicide in the past 10 years, directly due to turn not able to access proper mental health treatment. One walked out of hospital to do it.

There is a crisis in mh treatment. It can take 2 years or more just to access basic therapy. Way too late for some people.

Its sad to think that people are so trapped they cant see a way out.Also sad to think not so many years ago could actually be imprisoned for "Committing Suicide"! None of us know whats happening really with others lives though.Sometimes its hard to go on

For those saying "what can mental health services do" in my experience a hell of a lot.

My mum has had several attempts. Her first as a small child is identifying so I won't say what she did, but was silly child logic that at worst would cause a tummy ache. I think because her sibling died of illness and she was told she went to sleep and was happy now my mum wanted to do the same whenever life got hard.

I don't know the details of any other attempts, but know that as a young adult she was admitted into a psychiatric institution for a short while. She describes this as "terrifying" and as a consequence she did not attempt again for several decades or did she seek help for the depression I now realise she suffered from throughout my childhood.

In her 60s she tried again, almost succeeded. Blue lighted to hospital and the staff happily told me she'd be released in 2 hours. I was shocked, how could I keep her safe. It was obvious she would try again. She'd always been open that if health got too much she would take her own life. Luckily she had caused too much damage and couldn't be released, spending a week in intensive care and a week on a ward. Whilst in intensive care she refused all treatment for a while and was lucky to make it.

Thankfully being in hospital gave her access to a psychiatrist and she then moved to a psych ward, before being discharged with a year of CMHT support.

A decade later she is doing well and her MH is "the best it's ever been".

Compared to a Facebook friend who wasnt admitted and died horrifically after her 5th attempt whilst suffering from post birth psychosis and a family friend who died of frailty after months without a section following becoming unwell from ceasing her long term antipsychotic meds. She was sectioned shortly before her death, but sadly it was too late.

So I strongly disagree that the quality and availability of care doesn't make a difference.

I've been suicidal and now work in mh services.

The way I'd describe it is like jumping from a burning building.

I knew I'd probably die, was scared of the pain of the method etc but it seemed much better than the pain of the flames. It's that staying in my life, and body that felt like it was on fire just wasn't an option. I couldn't focus on anything else but the pain of the fire

Others (like on this thread) would tell me to hang in there, the fire will die out probably. People have way worse fires and live!

The problem is the fire is invisible, no one can see the difficulties you face, the routes blocked or the feel the heat.

In my case that also slightly blinded me, I couldn't for example think of others and how it would impact them because all I could think about was getting out of the building.

Part of my depression also blinded me to the fact that my family would care. I genuinely believed that they would be better without me, and even if I didn't I'm not sure I could have stayed in that pain for them

The problems are also systemic. Mental health services are such a small piece of the puzzle, I often feel like I am being asked to make the untolerable, tolerable.

We get people with incredible social stressors, deprivation etc that we simply have no control over

Sometimes it's like working in an asthma center and treating patients only for them to return to a very moldy house

It certainly did happen and was occasionally mentioned in hushed tones.

Thank you @ChocolateCakeOverspill

My brother took his life last year. We were not close and I hadn’t seen him in a long time. While I am upset of course I’m also angry with him as my mother whom he was very close to is completely devastated and
I’m left to try and make sure she’s not another suicide case. My family is complex and it’s a complete nightmare tbh. Also the way he did it was nothing short of horrific and I can’t stop thinking about the young girl who found him. I’m not saying all suicide is selfish but my brother was selfish all his life, never giving a thought to anyone else and he was selfish in death. My parents lives are over, they are only in their 60’s and my little nephew grows up without a dad. There is a selfishness in it in some cases.

The key difference is that your nan had enough physical/social support to work 2 jobs despite having 3 children.

There's always been challenges in life, but over the years the trend has shifted from being physically and financially hard, to emotionally and socially hard. I would view the latter as much more of a suicide risk.

While this is a good point, it probably needs context for people who don’t understand the issue.

the expression committed suicide is considered problematic, as it implies the act of suicide is a crime (as it historically has been) or a sin (in religion). The verb commit deepens the emotional pain surrounding this sensitive but important subject—thickening the barriers to talking openly about it. Now that we approach mental illness just as that, as an illness, rather than a moral failing, mental health experts and suicide prevention specialists recommend using the phrase, died by suicide. Just as someone can die of heart disease, using the phrase to die by suicide allows us to communicate more compassionately—and accurately—about those who have passed

Mental health services are currently inadequate as a rule and there needs to be a national review. People are being left with nothing because provision just doesn’t exist.

It’s complex and there is not a one size fits all solution, all the short term therapy in the world is not going to make the blindest difference for some people, equally a medical model isn’t going to help someone with a personality disorder or complex PTSD. But everyone is expected to fit into the model which has been created and if they don’t, they’re labelled as the problem rather than looking at what will work. The concept of having capacity to make that decision is awful and is being trotted out by people who are either burnt out, don’t care, or have misunderstood the boundaried approach which is used for people with some personality disorders.

The rates haven’t gone up particularly, lots of people on here have already explained why numbers might look that way. Sadly I think they will though given the current context.

Regardless of overall figures, every single life lost to suicide is tragic and has ripples far beyond what the person is able to see when they take that decision. Much moreso than death by other causes

Could posters not use the word ‘commit’ for suicide please.

I think it is talked about more nowadays.

When I was a kid my next door neighbour died by suicide. I didn't even know this until I was an adult. I knew he'd died, obviously, but people studiously avoided talking about it. It was all 'died suddenly' and 'what a shame' and exchanging looks. Very different to other deaths where I remember things like poor x had a heart attack / died in their sleep / got run over /had a stroke.

Suicide was treated like a dirty secret. A word that must not be spoken out loud. It was seen as an act of weakness and cowardice. I now know that his wife felt ashamed! Can you imagine. Your husband goes out and hangs himself and society is such that what you feel is shame? It's horrendous.

I think suicide and mental health issues are more openly discussed these days so there is more visibility.

I think so many people are having a tough time as well (Covid, cost of living crisis, less funding for health and social services) and it makes sense that more people would find themselves in crisis.

I hope there will continue to be more awareness of mental health issues and less stigma and that we can improve services.

As for assisted dying I think we really need to have an adult conversation on this as a country, rather than just bow to the religious belief that people should not end their life.

I think it is perfectly right that people who are in incredible pain because of medical issues that will never get better and have no quality of life should have the right to end things with dignity and get the support to do it.

As for suggesting a 'trigger warning', that's just unnecessary nannying, the title says it all.

Also to the people saying that suicide is a selfish act: you have to try to understand that when someone gets to that stage it is because they can see no other way out and are likely no longer rational. Suicide appears like the only solution to achieve peace and something that would actually make the people in your life better off. I made plans to end my life a few months ago. At the time I had lost all hope, my brain and body were not functioning anymore and all I could think of was that nothing in my life would ever get better and I wanted the pain to finally end. I was no longer rational. Thankfully at the last minute I managed somehow to reach for help. My GP and the crisis team saved my life and with medication my thoughts stabilised themselves and I came out of that hole. My point is my mind before that was literally 'gone' so there is no 'selfishness' if you have a reached a point where your thoughts have gone completely haywire and you are no longer a rational human being...