People ending their lives?

You make a very important point.

To talk openly about exactly how ill you are often leads to further problems. I could lose my job and my children over trying to seek help. The way mental health issues are approached is really not helpful.

Unfortunately you’re not going to be able to remove the stigma until the law changes. I am suicidal. I have a NHS MH team trying to support me. I find talking about my plans and intent cathartic, however I have to be very careful. If I’m too honest then I’ll be involuntary detained under the Mental Health Act. While it’s no longer a criminal act, the law still stigmatises suicide.

My team are fantastic at managing my risk - we use positive risk taking methods. But I know the fact I can’t be 100% honest, coupled with my history of trauma and how I now react to things, is likely to end with me taking my life.

There needs to be a lot of open debates held - without the overly oppressive influence of outdated religious beliefs - and the focus needs to be on the needs and wants of the suicidal person.

I came onto the thread because I’ve been personally affected by suicide a number of times, not specifically to post about terminology. In my opinion, the move to reduce stigma is a good thing, I wish people had thought about this stuff earlier because if they had perhaps things might have felt different for some of the people that I’ve lost. I’ve had it pointed out to me when I talked about my family and while at the time I felt criticised, with the context it felt really positive.

If you choose not to use that language and if you disagree with it, that’s your choice but it’s helpful to lots of people to hear that language is changing and why this is.

I’m sorry that you find that preachy and sanctimonious.

It is not correct terminology though it is what you have chosen, that doesn’t make it correct. I was already aware of it but in my situation I choose not to use that terminology. That is up to me.

Why? It's clear what the thread is about from the title.

I think it’s important that people are made aware of the correct terminology and that suicide should no longer be viewed as a crime.

I am so sorry for the loss of your family members @dinnerInthedog

Same as the PP whose brother in law killed her sister and then himself. That's not the same as a terminally ill person taking too much morphine. There has to be the language to express differences
Isn't your first example referred to as a murder suicide so the difference is clear

@ChocolateCakeOverspill
but you coming onto a thread where people are already talking about it just comes across as preachy and sanctimonious

@echt
@tuvamoodyson
@Metabolicallycomplicated

Several posters before you commented and explained that the thread didn’t need a trigger Warning so at 8.55am yesterday morning, I apologised for my trigger warning request. I was only trying to be helpful to those who may find this thread distressing and no harm was intended. Therefore, I don’t really see the need for further comments about the trigger warning request.

For the people left behind, it is extremely hard but that is something they need help with
How do you think those left behind, will receive help, if its the very same MH help their loved one, who killed themselves, didn't get? Does the MH support suddenly become available to the families, when it wasn't available for the original person in need?

As a survivor, I can tell you, from my experience and that of my family, there is zero support available.

Those left behind, are more likely to experience depression, lifelong guilt and issues, as well as a higher chance of having suicidal thoughts themselves.

I've known 2 middle aged fathers to take their lives.

Neither seemed depressed and both had dependent DCs and seemingly supportive wives.

But both had history of class a drug abuse and unsteady employment.

Both cases messed their DCs up.

Maybe we should all be more aware of risk factors and know mental health first aid?

I think there is room for nuance in language.

Two people die in a car crash:
1 - drink driver caused a multi car pile up
1 - innocent 4yo caught up in the crash

I do not think both of those deaths should be described as a "car accident " like they are remotely the same thing.

Same as the PP whose brother in law killed her sister and then himself. That's not the same as a terminally ill person taking too much morphine. There has to be the language to express differences

I’m sorry for what happened to your family.

Just to say that this isn’t about individuals on here policing language, it’s an international change in the way that people are encouraged to talk about suicide in order to destigmatise it. Many people don’t know that so a previous poster and I were trying to communicate that. Of course individuals can say what they want but they may get people pointing this out to them.

We are big boys and girls here, the title does make it clear what is about to be discussed. I agree.

It's a topic that's more openly discussed these days, more awareness about mental health but just not the services reflecting this. More funding is desperately needed.

I’m sorry about the people you’ve lost.

Probably not a popular view, but I think MH services are only accountable if someone dies whilst in their care... and by that I mean inpatient. Suicides in hospitals should never be allowed to happen.

Sadly and unforgivably this happens way too often.

Already posted about this

I think given the title is very clearly about suicide, if you find that subject upsetting you can ignore the thread entirely.

Agreed!

If I had severe pain, limited options and very little enjoyment in life then no-one would take away my right to finish it.

I agree with this for the most part.

One of my closest friends killed themselves. It was decades ago now, but they never, ever gave any hint that they were feeling low, had ideation, there was no interaction or history with mental health services, nothing at all that could have even so much as hinted at what they were planning to do. It obviously devastated their family, and I've seen how it has changed and affected them as people due to staying in touch with them down the years. I can relate in some way to them because it seriously affected me for a long time before I was really able to process it. I've also lost a close family member to accident who was around the same age as my friend, and in truth the effect on their family is much the same.

You can say "well there was no need for friend to take their own life", and that is true, but there was also no need for my family member to be doing the activity they were that caused the accident that killed them.

I've had periods of really poor mental health in my life where suicidal ideation was a constant theme, and to be perfectly honest, even given what I know about how death affected both families, the thought of how mine would react if I had acted on the ideation never, ever entered my mind. It simply isn't a consideration, and I don't see why it should be given that my life is not theirs to decide what to do with.

I work in mental health, I am trained in mental health first-aid, part of which means dealing appropriately with people who are clearly in crisis and may be at the point where they are either planning, or in the act of attempting suicide. While I would always do everything I could to discourage, protect, and help them, I'm of a mind that if someone is so genuinely bereft of any desire to live that they want to die, then nobody has any right to judge them for acting on that. I think that if my friend was so desperately unhappy that they felt the need to do what they did, then I'm happy for them that the suffering ended for them as soon as they went through with the act.

Of course I wonder if they may have felt differently later in their life had they lived, and perhaps at some future point they'd have been glad to have not gone through with their plan, but it's also possible that may never have been the case, which is why I've never been able to feel any anger towards them, or felt it in any away appropriate to judge them for what they did.

Young males committing suicide seems to be very prevalent where I'm from (working class, deprived area). In this area, the culture this generation of men were very much brought up to 'be men' and 'don't cry like a girl'. I think it led to a whole host of now adult males who don't know how to share feelings and being shamed for doing so. Just my observation but really sad.

I'm raising two boys and feel this has impacted a little how I am with them. We talk a lot, are really open with them, it's ok to have feelings and to be upset...

It really doesn’t…..🙄

You wouldn’t blame someone with heart failure - there is no difference. It’s not a ‘choice’ for some/ most people.

Why? The clue is in the title!!

Yeah I fecking hate the outpouring of "it's so selfish" etc. Because being mentally ill is selfish? C'mon