People ending their lives?

Saying I find elements of some suicides 'almost unforgivable' is something you find disgusting?
I'm talking about a person who, after months of planning, jumped from a motorway bridge into rush hour traffic. On to the cars of innocent people. Children. And you talk about how they aren't considered because 'they didn't give a shit about the victim'
I'm allowed to find that part of their death almost unforgivable. It actually takes a lot of effort to try and forgive.
For the people left behind, we are allowed to use any words we want to, to describe how it feels. We can say it was selfish, reckless and unforgivable if we want. The people who ended their lives, causing devastation, don't care what language we use about their final act and dont get a say in it. They are gone.
It's mentally unhealthy for the people left behind to be forced to bury those feelings. The taboo of suicide is their burden to live with already. They don't get to grieve in the same way. They have already been mentally damaged forever because of how their loved one died. They are still living and dealing with the devastation. The living are the priority now.
And I would say to anybody considering suicide that endangering innocent people is selfish. Whatever they are going through, know that potentially killing or harming others is a reckless and selfish act. And do they want their final act on this earth to be killing an innocent adult or child? That should never be a taboo thing to say.

I felt the same reading that novel. I return to it once in a while.

It's a good time to look for remote jobs for US companies I guess, they would be working overnight our time. I've just taken medical redundancy but looking to get back to work as soon as I'm recovered from one of my other conditions. The employment market sucks at the moment though in my industry.

One of the biggest things that would make a difference for me would be some political stability in the UK, and the financial markets becoming less volatile, but that's not going to happen in an election year. Nothing has felt reliable, safe, or stable for many years now and it's exhausting trying to think about the future & plan for our basic needs to be covered long-term. Not sure if everyone else is feeling the same way?

This is my plan too.

Suicide is a tragedy, but it also used to be a taboo topic. It’s more openly spoken about now.

I remember reading 'The Hours' and feeling the deep comfort of the words 'it is possible to die', and that knowledge giving the character the strength to go on another day. Perhaps if there was a legitimate route people would be less desperate.

Given your situation I think it would be fine to insist on night shifts.

You can dial into the odd meeting or read the notes.

Can you really explore that idea or a possible new job that can offer you what you need? Your needs have to come first, and foremost. I am sure if they knew your reasons they would have a change of heart.

It wasn't spoken about. Even 18 years ago after the suicide of my friend's mother it was all a bit hush hush.

You also hear of it more now because of media - both social and other types.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't know if it will help with any kind of acceptance/closure about these snubs for your mum, but I find people with their own issues sometimes need to cut people off who are needing help themselves, like her Facebook friend. I had a male colleague who bombarded me with messages of suicidal thoughts, but it never seemed to come to anything, so I stopped responding for my own sanity as it was making me ill. Every time I tried to get help, it didn't seem to make them any better and sometimes made things worse.

While MH workers can come across as uncaring, I think you must need a thick skin and a very hardened attitude to do that kind of job long-term. I know very caring people who went into MH and social care but couldn't cut it due to the overwork, the stress, their concern and worry for the people they were working with. People still need to be able to turn off at the end of their working day - I couldn't do that job.

Agree with this too. My mother had chronic depression all her life from a child. But in her final crisis, all they wanted to focus on was her drinking. She did drink too much, no question. But she was drinking because she was hideously unhappy and couldn't sleep and it took some of that pain away, for a while. The focus should never have been on fingerwagging at her for her units, but on supporting her to get mentally well so she didn't have to drink so much. It just made her angry and dismissive.

Why would they need to put a warning when it’s obvious what the subject is? If you find discussions about people ending their lives too upsetting to read why would you click on a thread with the title ‘people ending their lives’?

Second this. I had amazing support from my friends but talking to someone who really understood what I was feeling, just talking to them and having them hear and KNOW what I meant, instead of just guessing, was hugely important to me. I will always remember that conversation with a man whose name I don't even remember, who had lost his son. Such compassion and empathy.

I'm so sorry. The day my mother died, she was supposed to have an appt with her mental health case worker person, who called her and said she had overrun on her appointments but she would call in on my mum at home after work. She never came, or called to say she wasn't coming. It was picked up in the serious case review. I try so hard not to hold anger and to accept my mother's decision to end her life; but there were moments I felt such incredulous fury that a professional would let her down so badly when she was so vulnerable. She also messaged a friend of hers on FB while she was doing it and told him so. He saw the message, but he didn't reply to her, or alert me or police or anyone. As I say I try not to hold anger. But I will die hating him for that. It was all I could do not to spit in his face at her funeral.

I think it depends on the motivation behind the attempt, somewhat. There can be an element of "fuck you" or a strange sort of showmanship (for want of a better word) occasionally - look at the case in the news recently where someone was charged for trying to poison themselves in the middle of the jobcentre, or when people have set themselves on fire in public places to cause distress or make a point.

Those cases would definitely have affected all involved in a very negative way, and risked severely injuring other members of the public, and I don't think it's wrong to condemn that when there were other options available. There's a difference between opportunistic suicide and one with a lengthy planning process, IMO.

They pass, and then they come back, if you are afflicted with severe depression. My mother killed herself aged 60 after a lifetime of rising and receding mental health problems. It wasn't the first time she'd tried. It breaks my heart she's gone, and that she was so unhappy, and that I wasn't in the end able to help her; but I also know she suffered, and fought, and fought, and suffered with her mental health all her life. I'm not sorry she's not in that pain any more, or having a 'good patch' and waiting for that pain to come back. She could have had another 30 years, and I'd have treasured every one; but she would have had to live them. And after 45 years on antidepressants of various kinds, every therapy under the sun, in-patient care, not to mention multiple incurable and worsening physical health problems and severe financial hardship... maybe she couldn't face them. And I would struggle to say that she should have had to, no matter how much I might wish she had chosen that path instead of the one she did.

Thank you! When I need it I call the Samaritans - while they can't offer practical support, just knowing someone else is awake and willing to talk to you is helpful. I'm very conscious about bothering friends & family because there are so few of them - supporting me overnight for years & years, and having to drive to work on no sleep, would have done no good for their own health and livelihoods.

Ideally I'd do night shift work to try and manage these periods but my illnesses make me unsuitable for a lot of the jobs that offer it. I could quite easily do a lot of my current work overnight, but employers insist I'm around in the day for meetings 🙄

It’s not a disgusting attitude. You say gun death is contained and done in private. My brother shot himself in the head in his house 6 weeks ago leaving his young student lodger to find him. I can’t put into words what it’s done to her and to our family. My parents, my nephew, my nephew’s mother, me, my Dh, our children. Our lives are destroyed forever.

Please ALWAYS call your friends and family in the middle of the night if you need to. They would far rather a call from you than s knock at the door from the police. Can they offer a rota that are on call for you? You are more important than anything they are doing the follow on day. Please talk to them today and organise shifts so someone is always there for you 247.

I am very glad you have some support in place. Are you dealing with the trauma that your suicidal thoughts stem from? Do you have a tool box ready and preventative measures?

It’s not inevitable that your life will end. Your perception and reactions need to shift dramatically ( easier said than done) It is possible for you to go on and lead a happy and fulfilling life - maybe one that takes into account your trauma and CPTSD etc but one that is certainly worth living. A day at a time. 💐💐

It's gotten so much worse since in-patient services were cut and "care in the community" became a thing (and then was removed too!). We have a mental illness that runs in the family - my grandma was hospitalised for it in the 60s for over a month in an MH hospital, while psychiatrists found the meds that suited her, and they also ran blood tests that found various deficiencies they treated at the same time.

Now I have the condition, I'm expected to manage it alone at home with no specialist support, no services available overnight, nothing checked, just a "try this one" approach to meds by a GP. When it's bad, the nights are the absolute worst and the loneliest I've ever been - no-one is up, I can't wake friends or family because they also have work in the morning, so jittery that sitting still for 5 mins feels like over an hour. We used to have a lot of jumpers on our train line first thing in the morning, and I could see why.

When I'm ill I've asked to be admitted, but been told no unless I am actively attempting to end my own life - I do wonder how many folk intended to be found and get the help they need, but something went wrong.

There is bereavement support available, there is counselling and other forms of therapy. I am sorry your family was not able to access it for whatever reason at the time. It’s usually very beneficial.

The biggest issue for men is we don't feel as if we can talk about our mental health to friends/family and the downward trend continues, people say talk to samaritans or a therapist.

A therapist is great if you can afford it and some when they have reached the suicide stage can't and truly believe they are better off dead and very little will stop them.

As for saying it is selfish I'm 50/50 on that some cases yes others not.

Friends have taken their own lives, others have had people step in front of the truck they where driving.

I have been at the point of taking my own life in the past, its really not a great place to be!

"Almost unforgivable"? That's a disgusting attitude. People who commit suicide are usually at rock bottom and can see no other solution. The survival instinct is incredibly difficult to overcome. The impact on other people isn't a consideration, partly because the people who might be adversely affected didn't give a shit about the victim before they died, they didn't try to help them, in most or all cases didn't even know they existed until they didn't.

I agree that particularly gruesome methods like jumping from height or in front of a train can cause permanent psychological damage. The thing is, people don't resort to these methods because they want to, they use them because "cleaner" methods are unavailable to them. Hanging for instance is pretty grim but is relatively uncommon in the US compared to here because of the opportunities to use a gun to end one's life. (A gun death can be messy but is usually contained and done in private.) Where painless, reliable and non-messy methods are widely available people tend to use them. Very few people commit suicide with the intention to harm others, either by their death or the impact it will have on others.

Every time someone comes up with a safe, reliable, painless and clean way of committing suicide and promotes it on the web, they get villified, access gets restricted, the police get involved. Just a couple of months ago the BBC reported on a suicide advice website and were highly critical. (They didn't name it but helpfully made it easy to identify by quoting the site directly, so you could search for the quote and get there in a couple of clicks.)

Fine - we don't want people to kill themselves. But our choice is between making suicide difficult and therefore pushing people to more violent, painful and unpleasant methods, or allowing people to make the decision and have the means to do it more safely. There is no option to prevent suicide altogether.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who are very cool and collected prior to taking their own lives because they have decided that this life is not what they want any longer. They put their affairs in order and while they do not always leave a note, it remains a thought-through process
It isn't always a rash, random decision
edited for spelling

I hate it when people say committing suicide is the "easy" way out or selfish.
Please let me explain that it is NOT selfish. I had 2 near fatal suicide attempts once in 2020 that left me in ITU for 6 weeks, had to learn basic life skills such as walking.
2nd time in 2023, again, in ITU for 8 weeks, when I woke up I couldn't move one part of my body. I had to learn to walk, eat, swallow and hold my own sitting position again. I had to be fed and washed, had to use a bedpan ect, now where is the dignity in that? I was bed bound for 5 months.
I'm still only around 80% recovered back to baseline.
Yes, now I am in a much better place mentally and feel actually lucky to be here.
I'd also like to note, I have ALOT of support in place, a CPN, psychiatrist - fully medicated and take my medication properly.
Do people really think in that moment we can actually think clearly and logically?
Can people imagine being at rock bottom and feeling like suicide is our only way out.
In fact, it's probably the bravest thing I've ever done in terms of recovery. It's not easy.

People ought to think before jumping to assumptions.