People ending their lives?

It is so totally heinous to blame SoSs for their loved one not confiding in them. It is rubbing salt into an open wound that never closes.how, after all you've read on here of people's whole lives bring shaped by that complicated grief, that guilt and those unanswered questions, do you think it's appropriate to say "well if you'd been nicer maybe they would have told you how they were feeling"??? How unutterably cruel is that??

@Fionaville your posts are very harsh and jugemental. You don't actually know what was going through the minds of either of your relatives shortly before they took their own lives. The fact that there are two in your family suggests there is a mental illness thread there and it's disappointing that you can not be more open to facing that rather than condemning people who die of this terrible illness.

If your attitude is typical in your family then it isn't surprising they did not confide in any of you. My family might say the same but of course they couldn't possibly know.

I am suicidal but would never let anyone know (family, friends, colleagues, acquaintances) because I wouldn’t want them to feel that they could/should have done something to prevent it.
I have shared my plans with MH professionals before but that inevitably has consequences so I wouldn’t do that again.

@OnTheAlert well said. Unfortunately the flipside of that is that I’ve been suicidal a lot and sometimes a stranger from Samaritans just asking you a bunch of questions, however kindly they listen, isn’t a substitute for just a hug and knowing you’re worth something to someone who actually knows you. It’s a tricky one. Also nowadays even if the friend/family is happy to chat on the phone for example they’re probably asleep (or dealing with a crying baby) they’ll have their mobiles on silent, probably no other phone or unless you’re over about forty you don’t know anyone’s landline anyway.
Finally even telling my partner or friends that I’m having thoughts of self-harm let alone suicide is upsetting and stressful for them after a while and I don’t want to keep doing that to them.

I realise that @Newchapterbeckons said that in a reply to a specific situation, @OnTheAlert, but more generally you are so right. I have absolutely no one to call, day or night. Not because I've worn people out, there simply isn't anyone.

I have told less than a handful of (non-professional) people when feeling suicidal. It's not something I'd do unless absolutely desperate. My mum and sister simply ignored it and never referred to it again. One friend told me later that she had been worried, but she didn't even contact me again for months. I had previously been there for her in similar circumstances despite being the other side of the world.

Just reach out, they say. Tell someone. Ask for help. Good luck with that.

There are people who kill themselves having told no one, I don't want to ignore that. I just don't understand it. I can only imagine that their experience was very different.

Please don't assume that there is anyone to reach out to.

Please ALWAYS call your friends and family in the middle of the night if you need to. They would far rather a call from you than s knock at the door from the police. Can they offer a rota that are on call for you? You are more important than anything they are doing the follow on day. Please talk to them today and organise shifts so someone is always there for you 247

Not everyone has this kind of support in terms of family members or friends.

I remember chatting to a woman who had been suicidal but was fine now. At her lowest point she realised she just didn't have anyone she could rely on like that, and call in the middle of the night.

I think yes, after a suicide happens, lots of people would wish the dead person had got in touch and asked for help.

The reality is those same people often make it very clear they are not available for anything other than a weekly chat over a coffee. And there's nothing really wrong with that - people need to have boundaries because oftentimes they are very tirrd or stressed to the hilt in their own lives and don't have capacity to do a night shift on duty for a suicidal friend.

I was thinking about my best friend who ultimately ended her life. In her 20s she was a party girl, did everything to the max and was a functioning alcoholic. She was possibly bi polar but thought she was schizophrenic. We think she had a bad reaction to LSD or strong marijuana because one day she was very unwell and ended up being sectioned. Then she moved to her home city in Midlands away from London. When she lived in London she was offered counselling and yoga on NHS. She was only offered medication and hospitalised again and again in midlands. One day after about 3 years living there she rang me in tears as she’d been told she’d been overprescribed massively her main medication and the doctors wanted her to reduce the dose a lot. It had made her put on a lot of weight and lactate. She kept saying to me “how can I trust the doctors now?”. About 2-3 months after this conversation (I was about to go and see her) she ended her own life. I strongly believe the doctors were at fault there and so do her family.

This topic is far too personal and emotive to thoughtlessly condemn people's attitudes as disgusting. Their feelings will be shaped by their own traumatic experiences. A little compassion for people's complex and traumatic grief (of which anger is often a common reaction) wouldn't go amiss.

Neither you or @Fionaville are wrong. Both things can be true at the same time - 1. It feels selfish, thoughtless and beyond devastating for those left behind. 2. AND also - It wasn't actually meant in that way and the person needed help and support as they weren't in their right mind.

Condemning someone who is clearly still affected by these losses is not compassionate or helpful..

In my experience a lot of the frustration is because there is a long wait to see an over-worked member of staff with too many people on their caseload who discharges you/signposts you/gives you some leaflets and you never see them again.

Sometimes people who are suicidal/have attempted suicide are turned away.

CAMHS is a particular issue for me - they have repeatedly refused referrals for DS, despite his constant distress at existing. He talks about wanting to die all the time, but essentially because he's autistic they won't do anything. The paediatrician who diagnosed the autism referred him and they refused.

And primary care mental health services - I know they can't magic up solutions, but is 'try mindfulness for a few weeks and let us know how you're getting on' in any way an appropriate response to 'my mental health is suffering because I'm being physically attacked most days by my child, who also keeps me up for most of the night'? Thankfully after the few weeks they referred me to short term counselling - only six weeks, but the counsellor I saw was so worried about me she wrangled another two weeks for me. Since then nothing - but tbh I've been too busy trying to juggle work, DS needs, getting help and support for DS, and working round various appointments and meetings about DS.

Sorry to hear that. I have also had some really crappy comments from supposed MH professionals.
I hope today has been a little kinder to you

@WristCandy , thank you.

I'm sorry, @Flensburg. Basic kindness has been lost in many services/staff. I'm sure there are multiple reasons, but the outcome for people in desperate situations and mental ill-health is fucking bleak.

💙

@XenoBitch it's outrageous and terrifying.
I went to secondary mental health care in crisis yesterday. The duty nurse told me I mustn't cry in the waiting room as everyone there had "something to be sad about".

I am not surprised by this.

There was also a scheme called Serenity Integrated Mentoring (or High Intensity Network) that also sought to criminalise people having a MH crisis as a way to manage them.

People who attempt suicide are still sometimes treated as criminals:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/manchester-suicide-women-prosecution-police-traffic-jam-a8926981.html

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1915989.suicide-attempt-woman-not-helped-by-health-services/

When my children were very small, I.planned to take our lives. I had it all worked out and in my disturbed mind, it made perfect sense. I thought I was caring for them by taking them with me.

On the day in question, I had to take my little girl to an appointment and I can't quite remember how it came about but they called the crisis service and from that moment, the wheels of help started turning.

The children were officially made state wards but entrusted into the care of friends. I was taken to respite house where I was looked after 27-7 by a nurse, with a psychiatrist and various other people (mental.health nurse? Social worker?) visiting each day.

I remember feeling completely detached, as if I could see the world but sort of just floating in a bubble and not part of it.

Recovery seemed slow but in hindsight was relatively smooth. When I returned home and the children were returned, I had nurses on rotation.

It's a world away from where I'm at now. The children are now teenagers and I work ft, do normal things etc.

At no point did I imagine I was doing anything more than making a carefully considered decision with utmost love for my children. So please, before you judge anyone who takes their own life, please try to grasp that they probably thought it was a good plan and had no intention or comprehension of how it could be otherwise construed. The outside world had stopped existing for me.

We need more words, more nouns to cover the many different suicides that occur in our communities.
It's wrong to use the same term for@peakygold 's grieving nan as for a troubled teenager or a woman whose menopausal hormones have caused intrusive thoughts.

Some people really do choose to 'commit' suicide. Some groups of people do 'cry for help' (that would be my brother) others sadly do talk but don't get heard or just can't hear the response.

The whole thing - language, support, research is a mess and the only thing we can agree on is that we are all sadder if it is part of our lives.

In 1980, my lovely Nan swallowed most of a bottle of Paracetamol and, aged 14, I found her. My mother was more concerned that Nan had broken the law regarding taking your own life (she hadn't). She was bereft after my Grandad had died the year before. The woman had lived through WWII, been chased by V2 rockets, worked in ammunitions factories, had a stillborn son and seen horrific things, but she was not prepared for widowhood. Thankfully, they were able to save her, and she lived another 19 years. We got her a dog and a budgie, took care of her and she started living again. A different life. They stopped selling bottles of 100 paracetamol quite soon after.

Im so sorry.

I think some people think that if you say you're going to do it, that you're 'attention seeking' and that people who do it, don't tell people beforehand.

It's completely untrue and a dangerous myth.

Like @TM1979 I've grown up with a very selfish brother. It was never his fault as a toddler, always some reason why or how he ended up with the 'best' as a child.
As a teen he went for freedom, alcohol and drugs.
He's nearly 50, still an alcoholic. I never hear from him unless he's suicidal. He's had money, supportive partners, everything but still ends up obsessed with himself to the exclusion of all others.
After his recent events my mum is on eggshells, it's really not fair on her, his friends or his ex partner.
I currently feel quite numb, flat, almost disinterested about it all.

Oh, @herewegoroundthebastardbush, that's heartbreaking. I'm sorry both of you had to go through such pain. 💜

Brilliant post Fionaville.
I agree with everything you said.

How old are you YouJustDoYou? I'm 75 and have no reason to want to end life for a long time!

The author is Michael Cunningham, as I recall.

I’ve never heard of that book, but will definitely look it up.

A couple of years ago, I obtained ‘the means’ I needed to end my life in a painless manner. It was so comforting to know I didn’t have to worry or stress about my method anymore. I’d go as far as saying, just having the option of a peaceful escape at a time of my choosing, has reduced my suicidal ideation far more than the years of therapy and medication I’ve tried.

So yes, knowing it’s possible to die helps.