Are my kids naughty or normal

@Jingledog

Don't beat yourself up. We have all been there. It's just when it becomes a pattern. Screen time has its place, don't get me wrong!

Just wanted to add you are in the hardest days and it really does get better if you stick to your guns

Please try not to give in with the screen time. I know it's hard. Mine are 6 and 4 and I'm really glad I haven't overdone the screens. Go to restaurants and shops, you will see kids sitting like zombies on tablets, unable to communicate or handle a normal social situation, unable to cope with being bored for one minute. It's sad.

Push through, I have been where you are, not so long ago I was trying to pick up tantruming toddlers from the middle of the veg aisle. It's hard, it sucks, but it's worth it. I am now seeing light at the end of the tunnel and I'm glad I stuck to my guns.

Set a boundary and consequence and be prepared to follow through.

Your kids sound normal. But you cannot allow them to run around a restaurant unrestrained. You either put a stop to that behavior or you leave. Simple as that.

My dear old mum, who was a teacher for aeons, used to say, when one of mine was giving it , “Challenging children make interesting adults”.

They are almost adults now. She wasn’t wrong.

I withheld something they like to play with this afternoon

Nope. This is not a good idea. You really need to do some research on child behaviour and development.

This isn’t a power battle. It isn’t about punishment. It’s about education and discipline - there is a difference and you should not only know it but put it into practice.

You owe it to your children.

Personally I disagree with those that say you need to be firmer. I have had three 'spirited' children. All neurodiverse but I didn't know that then. With my first, I was very strict and consistent. I noticed much more so than others with well behaved children at toddler groups who seemed permissive. I did wonder if I was being too strict, and that was causing it? But everyone's advice was just to be consistent and not give in etc but every time I reinforced a boundary my child would have a raging meltdown. She'd have a raging meltdown friendly when it was time to leave the house and then time to go home. I'd carry her kicking and screaming from friends houses because she didn't want to leave. I didn't give in when I had said no to something, and I didn't bribe. She got loads of one to one attention.

When I had dc3 who reminds me the most of dc1, I gave in and bribed etc and did things for an easier life because what I learned from dc1 is that for some children who struggle with emotional regulation more than others, being inflexible just prolongs everyone's suffering and they are unable to learn from it so you have to repeat the trauma over and over. So I gave in or didn't insist on things often. I provided bribes etc I also learned to predict triggers and asked friends if we could meet somewhere for a walk or to playground, as restaurants and cafes don't work for us yet. People often joke about how parenting standards slip with each DC, but it's not just because parents give up, it's because they become wiser. My dc3 didn't become even more difficult because I became less strict.

I think trying the standard methods of discipline is always wise. But if you are doing the same thing endlessly and it isn't working, it doesn't mean you are doing it wrong. Your child just needs a different style of parenting. And you need to develop a thick skin and find friends who also have the same parenting experience.

Random suggestion, stop all sugar in their
diets

@Jingledog trust me, I've been there and had these perfect parents completely rip me to shreds and make me feel absolutely terrible.

I've also felt completely deflated after shopping trips of trips anywhere really ! My husband and I nearly lost our minds taking them to the beach.

I've also given in to tantrums before, just because I was at absolute breaking point.

It will get better. Their brains just aren't there yet. It takes time. Give them that time.

Shopping is very boring for children, they need a good run round the park daily to burn off their energy. If possible shop online

Hey OP. I haven't read all the comments but I just wanted to comment anyway.

I think your kids sound normal. I'm sure sometimes they also have days when they're slightly better behaved. You have probably had a tough few days and are forgetting the times they were a bit better behaved. It all blurs into one.

My children are almost 2 and almost 4. So not too different from yours.

We have had really bad moments, just like you describe. And you ask yourself if it's normal, then we have some better moments. The better moments are increasing. I can tell. Especially my 4 year old. Even compared to what she was like at 3 and a half. She also still has her moments too, but it cannot be compared to how she was.

It just takes time. I don't think it's what I did particularly or how I parented her. It's her brain and her emotions. She's maturing. Just now I was drying her hair after her bath and remembering how absolutely nuts she'd go, even a year ago at me doing that. Or how much she'd scream in the bath when I would wash her hair. She was so distressed I really thought maybe there was a problem.

She still has her moments now and again, when she's particularly tired or hungry etc. but it's so much better. She can accept no a bit. I really don't think it had anything to do with me that she's changed.

My almost 2 year old is going through the tantrum stage now and it's really testing, but I've seen it all before. He'll get over it when he matures.

I'm not saying you should give in etc. try to stay as firm as you can, try to distract them and sometimes, just don't go places. I sometimes just didn't go places as I knew we just couldn't handle it. I still don't do certain things I know I can't handle on my own with them. They're small kids and they will act out sometimes, they just need patience / understanding and boundaries.

@Jingledog you are definitely doing something right as the kids are saving all their shite for you. They are well behaved at nursery etc so call it a win.

I am very lucky to have generally placid children but they do all get out of hand at times

My tips are:

Pick your battles- if you go on at them all the time, it becomes white noise.

Give them a chance to earn reward/praise Could you be a superstar and do (xyz)? Could you help me by (abc)? etc.

Anticipate a melt down and stop it before it starts

Never let them get bored in public- I spy, thumb war, scavenger hunts, count the number of (x) games are competitive and can be played anywhere.

Divide early and conquer- don’t let a bicker become a full scale argument. Cut it short and distract with a positive.

Look after yourself too. You need to take some time to recharge. Mums work so much more efficiently when they get a break. No one would accept a job working 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, no holiday or sick leave. It is bloody exhausting but doesn’t last forever. Fortunately the pay is love and hugs which makes it worthwhile. X

@coxesorangepippin You can change the behaviour - you just have to put some effort in. Aren’t your children worth that?

I'm a bit similar to you op, in the fact that I'd give in to them

Which is why I feel that if you can't change the behaviour, change the situation

So go to different places

Dedicating every breathing minute to them doesn't automatically make you a good parent. Rather than being melodramatic, it would probably be more constructive to listen to what advice you've been given and re-think your parenting strategies while the kids are still young and pre-school.

No. Something along the lines of “shit, I fucked up. I didn’t realise my wish for an easy life was actually training my children to scream at me. I will do some research on child behaviour and development and change tactics accordingly.”

That would be the optimal response and the one your children deserve.

Many people here seem to catastrophize and think if you dont get the behaviour of 2 and 3 year olds under control the children will end up in juvenile detention.

Silly exaggeration.

Most people are saying you need to be consistent with kids and with what you expect from them behaviour-wise, and to make the consequences clear and stick to them.

@DriftingDora She “doesn’t want to give that any airtime” though. She doesn’t want to take any responsibility for the fact that she has caused this.

'I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore'.

You are the parent here, OP, and if your children instinctively know (as they obviously do) that if they keep on pressing your buttons you will allow them to run riot and they will be given snacks and treats to appease them, then of course they will keep on running riot - it gets results! And if your 'nerves can't take any more', maybe you should have considered this possibility and how you were going to parent any children before having them - or did you expect they would acquire social skills without intervention on your part?

It is totally wrong to allow children to behave like this in a restaurant, thus spoiling it for others. How to you think other people feel when their meal is disrupted and it's impossible to talk to fellow diners because of your kids behaviour and noise? I cannot imagine how you would sit there and allow it to happen - you seem really apathetic, as though it's no fault of yours, but it is - because you set no boundaries for them, there are no consequences, they are rewarded for their antics. And by the way, pigeons are not there as playthings or to be frightened by children, either - so a responsible parent should intervene to stop them chasing after pigeons as well.

I was a very very well behaved child - but my dad was a bit scary, that’s why. I would have preferred more relaxed parents - maybe I wouldn’t have ended up having so much anxiety.

I think its good for children to feel comfortable enough to not be perfectly behaved - having said that, if their behaviour is impacting on others then I apologise and remove them or distract them - i dont come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Many people here seem to catastrophize and think if you dont get the behaviour of 2 and 3 year olds under control the children will end up in juvenile detention.

i think as long as you’re a good enough parent then your children will hopefully turn out good enough in the end. They dont have to be perfect. When they are old enough to listen to reason its a bit easier.