Are my kids naughty or normal

Not true at all. Kids have about two decades to learn how to behave in various situations. Part of our jobs as parents is to decide when they're ready for the next step. (You wouldn't coach an 8yo in how to act in a job interview!)

Kids develop at different rates .... if the OP judges that hers aren't ready for restaurant meals yet, then she'd be wise to stay away for another year or two, until she feels they'll understand how and why people stay seated at their tables and are able to do so.

Sometimes you have to keep trying and admit failure, as many people have said they've done with their DCs on this thread. No shame in that. They all get there eventually. You don't see 12 year olds running around the tables shrieking!

I'm a social worker and foster carer. I specialise in teens.

Then I'd hope you would be less prone to being judgmental and melodramatic than your post shows. How can you possibly refer to 'marching them' out of a cafe or say that taking them home amounts to 'bullying' on no evidence whatsoever? So in your world, small children shouting and running around in a dangerous environment is OK (hot food/hot plates - how many more times does it need to be said?). Well, for a social worker and foster carer that's enlightening to know.

And perhaps I could remind you that even social workers get things wrong - quite often, actually - and often very badly wrong. Yes?

I don’t think it’s relevant whether they are boys or girls. I have a daughter who is almost 5 and extremely hyperactive. We have only just been able to start going out to eat. She would cry and try and run all over the place until recently. I use screen time in restaurants and I’m not bothered that some people disagree. It’s so boring for young kids to be sat at a table observing adult conversation for over an hour.

Your children sound normal from my own experience. It’s unusual for your friends kids to be so placid at young ages.

My parents always remind me how I would sit still in public and not make a peep when u was my daughters age but that was because I was petrified of my father who used to threaten me with a ‘good hiding’ if I even dared to laugh loudly.

I was thinking the same thing.

Probably better to have short-term annoyance for yourself than setting yourself up for years of emotional blackmail. Children are really quick to realise how they can get their own way and once they know which buttons to press, they don't hesitate to use that knowledge. If you curtail the outing a few times, they'll soon start to realise that you are serious and that there are consequences for acting out.

Please persevere! It will be hard at first but I'm sure your friends will recognise that you're trying to set a pattern of good behaviour - and they'll thank you for it.

Do your children draw or colour or practise sitting quietly occupying themselves at home without screens . Play doh jigsaw board games

these things are learned behaviour . You need to sit with them and teach them how to sit quietly for a bit of every day . How to occupy themselves .

it can be done . Then you can go for play time screen time. Even scream time 👍

when they get to nursery or reception they will be expected to have the skill of sorting on the carpet with the teacher listening to the story or days teaching point .

it’s your job to practise that now .
good luck . It can be done . and you can use rewards and rewards can be praise and mummy time .

It's not a case of shouting at them but making it clear what the boundaries are in certain situations. So restaurants for example.. If they get up from their seat to run around you'd need to straight away stop them and return them to their seat and say firmly something like 'we must sit still in restaurants' or 'we can't run around in restaurants' and then distract them with a colouring book or something and repeat Every time they get up! And keep repeating! Eventually they will realise they have to stay at table. Now I'll be honest the first few times you may be up and down the whole meal but the next time less and less and kids learn quickly. Gets easier! Best to start this as young as possible so by time they are 5 they don't even think to get up and run about. But we always have a pack of pens and paper or books for restaurants as they do need something to do while waiting.

Just a quick observation because I hear this kind of thing so often but why are colouring books seen as infinitely more sanctimonious than screens? I remember a waiter giving a flamboyant speech to us when we were dining that it was so impressive our dcs weren’t on screens and that he seldom sees that. It was nice if him and of course I was flattered but I did think to myself surely screens aren’t so different from the colouring guff they provide. It’s all just distraction for the benefit of other diners. Sorry to derail the thread but it’s just one of those things I kind of feel is an “emperors new clothes” issue. No one really seems to question why one is virtuous and the other appalling.

This is exactly what I was going to ask!

My two DSs aged 5 and 8 sound similar but they are not naughty - just full of energy and everything is a big adventure with boys and they never stay clean either! Its part of them growing up OP and your precious little heart strings are so adorably small!

Luckily my DSs love eating out so are well behaved in restaurants but outdoors I join in with the screams and shouting and the running around, especially because i'm 'a girl' and they already tease that boys are better than girls - the other parents think i'm bonkers but they laugh and tell me they wish they had the energy I have (I'm knackered deep down but I keep going) I get other peoples children trying to join in with us at wacky warehouse because my boys always nominate me to be 'Mrs Wolf' because they just love being chased and tickled and 'eaten'! Ha!

Whats the time Mrs Wolf.. try it out!

My motto is If you cant beat them - join them! wear them out and try not to let them wear you out OP - If only they came with a mute button ey!! Lol they are only going to get louder and more boisterous!! Just to warn you.

You'll drive them to be "naughtier" if they are always hearing "No" and being a bit silly with them will make them focus on you more in a nice, happy way - then you can gently say 'if you sit nicely we can do that again' - they'll listen and be waiting for the next round of belly laughs from mum being silly!!

Maybe next time meet your friend at a wacky warehouse or soft play place so the little ones can run around and investigate and really exercise those voice boxes!!

It is unreasonable to expect a 2 and 3yo to sit longer than a minute OP, they have unlimited enery to burn and they sound like fun little live wires imo OP, just like my own DSs!

Not naughty at all, every child is different so pls dont compare them to other children. Each child is unique and wonderful

Well said, Infusedwithchamomileandmint.

I'm afraid that I'm the parent and I don't take the "wrath" as anything to get stressed about nor am I going to tiptoe around trying to avoid it.

This, absolutely.

It sounds like they need to hear no a bit more. Practise the ‘look’ and using a firm voice You don’t need to shout. If anything just getting the ‘look’ from my mum was enough to make me behave when I was a kid. You’re just going to have to persevere. Let them have their tantrums. If they’re screaming the place down inside a shop or restaurant then walk them out to the car and keep them out there until they calm down. Perhaps take a look at their diet. Are there any hidden sugars in the foods that they eat?

Try

tnlc.info

for great parenting guidance and tips

I would say they’re not naughty… yet. They are 2 and 3.5 year olds behaving the way that 2 and 3.5 year olds can behave sometimes. But don’t allow that to become a reason/excuse for their behaviour, as if it is continued to be tolerated by you, they will continue tantruming to get their way, and yes then they would be considered naughty by me and I imagine others as well.

Um marching them out is so they don't disturb other diners.
Nothing to do with bullying children 😂

My daughters calm and will chill but my Son is like a tornado everywhere we go and doesnt listen to a word i say.

A lot of people on here are talking about being tough on your children and marching them out of the cafe. Please don't. Be kind to them and kind to yourself. They are just tiny children and don't deserve a parent bullying them. Have a look at Therapeutic parenting and please don't listen to the Dragon parents. Jeez. So harsh! I'm a social worker and foster carer. I specialise in teens. I never have to raise my voice

Sounds fairly normal. 😊
Last week apparently my 2 year old grandson was at Soft Play. He took all his clothes off then ran round showing everybody his willy until his parents could catch him.
Let’s hope he grows out of that habit 🤣

Boys are tough, particularly at that age. We have three boys, two with adhd so I completely understand the demands on you. When we went out I used to outline very clearly the behaviour I expected of them and what would happen if they complied (small treat) and exactly what would happen if they didn’t (no treat or even going home). No it doesn’t solve every problem straight away but it really does help. NEVER promise something you can’t deliver.
screen time in a restaurant is fine, or colouring or whatever keeps them occupied. Your friends children sound unusually well behaved …. I like a bit of spirit in kids.

People have got to stop saying girls are better at sitting and doing nothing, they aren't, the reason you think they are is because you are sexist and have raised your daughters completely differently to how you have raised your sons.
Boys can behave themselves perfectly well, girls can run away and make a mess, stop it with the sexist stereotypes, it's just embarrassing

It’s both. They’re exhibiting normal behaviour by pushing boundaries but you giving in to them is making them ‘naughty’z. They know if the kick up enough fuss they’ll get what they want.

I find as a general rule, girls are more able to sit at a table in a cafe/restaurant for longer. It's like we are born to be more social and like having conversations. Boys are more likely to get restless and want to run round.
Obviously, I'm generalising, but there's a reason that 'girl mums' are usually taken aback at the behaviour of little boys. I've got both. I've known girl mums, boy mums and mums of both. Some boys sit nicely, some girls run round wild, but it's usually the other way round.

Leave them home with husband while shopping, and don’t be too long. Get a babysitter for occasional lunch dates. Try kids every month or so to see if they are ready for public outings.

You can be as firm as you like, sometimes things escalate because you're too firm. You're better off ignoring them / leaving a place and finding different activities to do that don't trigger their wrath. Mid tantrum, you literally can't do anything to make it stop

I'm afraid that I'm the parent and I don't take the "wrath" as anything to get stressed about nor am I going to tiptoe around trying to avoid it.
Children getting cross, expressing their feelings and roaring because they wanted a blue cup not a red one / to run around/ undo straps is all part and parcel of their development.
I also think that there are a few very important rules that no matter what children need to follow.
If they don't I will intervene as its a safety issue.
Off the top of my head

Holding hands near a road
Crossing safely
Sitting down to eat ( choking)
Strapped in highchair/ car/ pushchair
Not running around in restaurants
No scissors/ knives

Some things are negotiable, some are absolutely not and that's the issue here.

You children are not naughty, they are just toddlers. Dont let people on here make you feel like shit about it. My boys were the exact same. There is 15 months between my energetic, boisterous boys so the toddler stage was very eventful. It does get easier as they get older, mature and more understanding. In the mean time whilst they are energetic, curious boys use your screen time in time of need, you need your own sanity to be a good mum. Dont let other people shame you for having time out so you can be the best version of yourself for them instead of a snappy burnout mummy. My boys were the exact same, maybe try looking for a hobby they could both enjoy together which burns off some steam. Maybe some kiddies sports clubs? Football, rugby, swimming? My boys ride motocross. I found having another authoritative figure to help them focus on something positive which they enjoy really helped mine