Are my kids naughty or normal

……but tantrums are normal for this age - it will pass as the child matures. Instead of battling against this part of childhood, just manage it. By that i mean - if you really want to go to a restaurant but you know your child will tantrum if expected to sit still - but will sit quietly with a cartoon- then just stick on a cartoon!

if a toddler’s tantrum is impacting others then remove the child until they calm down - distract them, then return when the tantrum blows over.

@Jingledog You have to take the hit now for the future. No, you can't stay in a cafe with your friend if your children are running riot and disturbing others. You have to take them home.

It ruins your time wiht your friend at that moment (although how much enjoyment are you getting with them messing about like that?) But firm boundaries around behaviour will mean you can spend more time with your friends in cafes in the future. Short term pain for long term gain.

There's no need to shout. They are small. Just pick them up bodily and leave, and strap them in their carseats, drive home.

Your 2 year old is displaying normal behaviour for someone who has been encouraged to comfort eat out of boredom, and if you don't put a stop to it now, could lead to a poor relationship with food going forward.

Your 3 year old is displaying normal behaviour for a child not being made to hold the adult's hand.

@Jingledog all kids are different and each day is different. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. Some kids are more spirited than others. My son is 3 and he has more tantrums/stronger emotions than his friends. It's very hard to deescalate when he's in the moment. Whilst it's important to maintain firm boundaries you also have to do what works for you and your family. It's not always practical or easy to pick up a child and remove them from their environment when they're kicking and screaming. And I find my 3 year old doesn't not listen in that moment. It's only later on in the day when he's calmed down when we are able to talk about what he did, why he did it and why it's not OK. That said I don't let him do what he wants, I would probably say we can't run in the restaurant, it's not safe, we need to sit down now then bribe him with x, y, z to avoid the screaming.
Not sure if your friends kids are girls but they are different to boys too, I find.

op if it helps I have 3 children. The oldest 2 were always so well behaved in coffee shops etc. I could take them a small toy or book/colouring and they would have a lovely time. My youngest ds I have never ever been able to take him somewhere like that. There is no way he can sit for more than a few minutes a time. As soon as his drink has gone he would be off. So I adjusted my expectations of him and arranged to meet friends elsewhere (at our homes, in a park, soft play). It’s not ideal but some kids really can’t sit still and let’s face it a coffee shop is dull for kids!

Just use screen time in the restaurant it’s really not that harmful. We used it when mine were young and it doesn’t seemed to have harmed how my now 10 and 12 year old can sit and enjoy a meal out without any devices and they didn’t lose the ability to be able to chat and sit still without devices.

Do they sit still at the table for dinner at home? If not, start there. Wait out the tantrums.

I would try and do a reset week, so let a couple of friends know what you are doing and ask them to help

Set yourself a goal of not giving in to any tantrums at all. You can distract, ignore, walk away, praise /reward the non tantrumming one etc, but absolutely do not give in. You might need to hide the screens or not charge them so that you arent tempted to use them as it will be difficult

Then set about your day, but dont organize anything you cant just leave at the drop of a hat (which is why you need your friends to be aware and help out). Meet friends at the park, tell the dc on the way that you dont want any fussing and if one of them does fuss, you will be going straight home. Then follow through.

It will probably take the whole week, but you stand a good chance that you will manage the reset

And remember that you dont talk to a child who is tantrumming, that is attention and they see it as a reward for the behaviour, you tell them briefly that they have until you count to three to stop fussing or you will be taking them home and that is all you say.

good luck

Not taking them for lunch etc doesn't solve anything as they don't learn but you do need to keep them under control or take them outside. You don't need to shout/scare them to manage behaviour and have good boundaries.

Please do go somewhere for kids/very kid friendly though. No-one having a nice lunch out wants little kids running around and hollering.

It's not 'normal' behaviour for the three year old, no.

It could be your parenting or there could be additional needs at play. It's impossible to say. I'd look into a parenting course because that's useful for everyone whether it's your parenting or not. I'd also speak to nursery or wherever your three year old goes about his behaviour and whether they have any concerns.

A two year old crying in a buggy is perfectly normal. Wanting to run around a restaurant is also normal, it's not normal parenting to allow that though.

Okay, so you end up scaring them by shouting.

Do they seem anxious as a result?

They deffo sound hard work and tbh it sounds like you need to be tougher on them. I've got 3 kids and when they were little screens didn't exist. How do you think we managed? Mine sat at the table behaved as I took a bag of snacks toys colouring etc
If I was your friend there's no way I would arrange to meet up with you again due to the kids behaviour- harsh I'm sorry but this soft approach to parenting doesn't work in the long run

i wouldnt ruin the day for everyone and go home because a toddler can’t sit calmly in a restaurant- stick on a cartoon (on mute or with headphones) and enjoy the time. My dad took this heavy approach with discipline and it made me into a anxious person. Its possible to be a bit more relaxed and still raise children that turn out relatively well behaved.

"Boys will be boys" is sexist nonsense.

With tantrums, if you give in you are reinforcing that having a tamtrum gets them what they want.

Yers, it's exhausting, yes, it screws up your plans, yes, some days you will want to jump on a train and escape it all. But the only way is through.

Making sure success is possible makes a difference - no shopping when they are hungry or overtired, plenty of exercise before something more sedentary, having things in your bag to distract or interest them.

But no tolerance for a tantrum, picking them up and walking out as necessary, and always following through will make a world of difference.

But it’s ok to ruin everyone else’s day with your children’s awful behaviour? Seriously, nip the running around in the bud sooner rather than later.

Scaring them is the only thing that seems to have some impact

Do you mean shouting at them?

Yes - this. Follow through with the warnings. They need to be marched out to the car and sat there if they can’t behave in a restaurant.

You need to talk through what you expect from them beforehand so they know what will be happening. Take quiet things for them to do, sticker book etc.

This. People are serving hot food, it’s absolutely ridiculous parents allow their children to run around. If any of ours started to try and run around they were whipped straight out.

Either way is normal and doesn’t necessarily reflect their future personalities or show good or bad parenting.

I have 4 children and remember them often acting at age 2 and 3 as yours do - and seeing other children that looked so well behaved and wondering how on earth the parents did it! At other times my children were the ones who appeared really well behaved while he passed a child having a tantrum at the supermarket.

i would say definitely use screen time when you’re in restaurant and want to enjoy it. My kids are teenagers now and capable of sitting in a restaurant and having a chat despite having a phone shoved in their face when they were younger to keep them quiet.

i dont think it is as simple as saying ‘you’re the parent- you’re in charge’. Some 2 and 3 year olds are not ready to sit nicely and that’s fine if you use some screen time to manage it. I’m not saying leave them watching cartoons all day- but use the screen-time for the parts of the day you need a break from them!

As my children grew and got a bit more rational then i was able to talk to them about how them should behave and how their behaviour impacts others. They’ve turned out as generally nice people now despite being nightmare toddlers!

Disciplining children doesn't have to involve shouting or scaring them. It sounds like you are trying a far too gentle approach. With regard to the shopping, I probably would have done it online rather than drag two young children round a supermarket and expect them not to get bored. Just one of them, yes, but not both. In that instance you were expecting far too much.
If your children can't get through a meal out without tantrums and running around then you need to go back to basics when eating at home and model expected behaviour at the dinner table.

The more you give in to tantrums the worse the issues will become.

you need clear and consistent boundaries. They need to know the word no means no.