Are my kids naughty or normal

Regarding meeting friends for lunch... at that age we always met up at a soft play, it was infinitely easier for everyone!

There was no need to put down others with asd and adhd . What a thinly veiled dig. Also I dont believe you . Is the adhd diagnosis something you pushed for for extra benefits? Also screen time when out and about is the perfect time.

Sometimes fun has to be stopped.

I do not want to go back to the dark smacking really tough days of parenting, the sort I had to endure in the 1970’s when many kids got a smack.

But you need boundaries and you need to not fall in to the trap of wanting your children to always like you. I find that is an issue. You need to learn to say no.
Carrot and stick approach is good with lots of praise for good behaviour.

DD was well behaved, DS really had the potential to be the very devil himself. When he started kicking off with tantrums at about 2.5 I picked him up and put him in his bedroom and said he wasn’t allowed to come out until he calmed down. Well he shouted and carried on being really angry and when he calmed down he was let out. In the end I had to do it twice, he never had a strop again. All in all those exclusions lasted around 30 minutes each time. Did he not like me at that time? Of course he didn’t.

But you’re ruining it for everyone else. It’s not their fault your children are out of control.

When shopping, rather than 'let' them do things like tap the card, I used to give them jobs, like when in the veg section, 'you choose 5 nice oranges!' And count them as they put them in the trolley and 'Can you find the beans that we usually get?' So you are proactively directing them with helpful activities. I was aware that it could sound like performative parenting, but it was better than a tantrum! I would save cafes until they have been to the park, or had some other tiring activity, and are ready for a sit down and a snack or drink.

I would say it's normal behaviour given their age. However I just want to reinforce how important it is for you to ensure good behaviour in a restaurant.

I have a burn scar on my wrist from when I was a waitress because some kid was running around the restaurant area and I was carrying hot soup. The kid ran into me and i had to make the decision to tilt my hand towards me to make sure the soup didn't go over their head and burn their face. I was furious with their parents and their reaction was to tell me that I should have been more careful because it was a family pub.

@LaughterTitsoff.. It's also part of parenting to make those judgements and decide that after x amount of times literally restraining and breaking their will is too much. Avoid that activity and do something that works for them help to nourish and gently direct rather than crush and subdue.

I was trying to reassure the op that inspite of some of the "perfect" parents on here : actually it's more down to dc personality than any special parenting techniques.

@Jingledog you cannot let your dc run around at a restaurant. It’s not safe and it’s disruptive.
You need to talk to them before you go and lay down your expectations and what the consequences will be if they misbehave.
Remind them again when you arrive.
If they misbehave take them outside and talk to them.
If they misbehave again go home.

Nor me.

Are they allowed to refuse tooth brushing? Bathing? Hair washing? How about if they want to run across the road?

"Boys will be boys" - yes and no

It's not OK to excuse bad behaviour by saying 'boys will be boys' (not saying you are OP just in general) BUT, boys are different to girls, they have more testosterone and I think it increases at around age 3, so they do tend to need more physical activity and so parents should adjust expectations accordingly by e.g. giving them lots of exercise or time outdoors before expecting them to sit quietly and/or not going to places that require sitting quietly until they are more able to do it. I feel you OP I have 2 boys! They are just turned 4 and 18mo. They are sometimes OK in a cafe or restaurant but I tend to meet friends at playgroup, park, NT site, soft play as it is just less stressful and meets their needs for movement and my need to chat to other mums!

Oh you're right in the thick of it OP. Your kids aren't naughty - kids aren't, not in the way that adults are - they're just toddlers ie unrestricted egos who don't understand how the world works and are surrounded by arbitrary rules about what they can and cannot do that they're struggling to make sense of.

Eg from a toddler's point of view, it's absurd and frustrating that he can run around in one place and not another. Eventually he will understand but it will take time and it won't be a smooth process. He'll learn by observing that you yourself are active and noisy in some places and not in others, by being prompted and encouraged to follow your example whether through praise or yes through external aids like toys, tablets etc and by being taken out of environments for a short time at those points where he just isn't able to get it, on that particular day.

It's fine, you're fine, they're fine. It's not easy! But it's okay.

I've never understood it when people say that their child refuses to be strapped into a high chair, a buggy or a car seat.

You don't give them the choice.

Be sure to give screen time/a reward for being well behaved, rather than giving it to them to stop them being naughty. Otherwise they will believe the naughty behaviours gets them what they crave. GL

@Aquamarine1029 a depressed miserable and isolated parent will find it much harder to set boundaries.

So no she wouldn't be strapped in either as that was stopping her fun.

She would be strapped in if you insisted on it and stuck to it.

The only thing is, you as her mother would have to learn to deal with the ensuing tantrums.

It's part of parenting though 🤷‍♂️

Good grief, op. I'm sorry, but it's not about you anymore and what you would like. You're a parent, you need to properly discipline your children and stop inflicting their behaviour on everyone else. You have to be firm yet kind and always consistent. Your kids need you to guide them and teach them what is acceptable behaviour. Your job is to nurture them into being socially desirable human beings, kids who other adults and children actually enjoy being around.

Totally normal op. I had one of each, one sitting one who would never sit..

Going out was incredibly stressful! She never wanted to sit and eat, a supermarket was a wonderful play ground of things to pull!! So no she wouldn't be strapped in either as that was stopping her fun.

It was a nightmare but mostly because of the judgement and looks I used to get.

When mine were a similar age and throwing tantrums I would remind myself that every time I gave in I'd have that battle to fight again. Difficult though it is clear expectations,consistency and following through are key. I would say most children hate it when adults shout and it only makes a situation worse. Try to speak quietly so they have to listen. A low tone of quiet menace is the one to aim for.
Keep your eyes on the prize! When you've got this sorted you'll be able to do far more with them and enjoy it.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Sorry @Jingledog, but yes it’s your parenting. It’s perfectly normal for children to behave in that way if they know that their parent/s will eventually give in. You need consistent boundaries with consequences every single time. It may seem like the harder option in the short term but it’s infinitely the better option in the long term for yourself and your children. Children with consistent, firm boundaries are happy children. Imagine gingerly stepping onto a frozen lake because you’re not sure if it’s safe. You relax as soon as you realise it’s solid and can support your weight.

I have 1 child like your friends, sit in a restaurant happily from any age, either talking to adults or maybe some colouring. I have a second child like yours! And a tantrum isn’t just a loud whinge for a couple of mins (which I what I thought one was with my eldest), it is a screaming thrashing screeching 30 min extravaganza which isn’t reasonable to inflict on anyone in any public space, so when we want to go to a restaurant etc I do what I can to avoid one, if that means a screen at the table then that’s fine, but generally pick restaurants which are better for young kids, ie outside space for a runaround or casual environment with bar food. Nowt all to do with parenting, just two very different personalities. The younger one is just taking a bit longer to grow out of tantrums etc but that doesn’t mean we won’t be getting out and about and living our lives.

@Jingledog I get that it would ruin things for you at the time and it is so frustrating to put all your stuff in a bag and physically leave but in the long term it's actually far easier for you because they'll take you seriously.

My eldest is 5 and we've only ever had to do the whole 'max out warnings and go home early' thing twice in his whole life and both times were when he was 3 so ages ago. Yes those 2 times were a pain and yes never giving in to demands was tough but he's an absolute angel now so it does pay off to stick to boundaries. I took him and his nearly 2 year old sister to Starbucks this morning and it was honestly a breeze and pure pleasure, they both just sat there and ate and we had a lovely time. Mornings like these don't happen by luck though - I am firm but fair with my kids and they know that rules are rules.

One thing that might help you is a buggy board. I shamelessly used mine until ds was 4 so for shopping etc he just held on and I whizzed around as quick as possible!

Good luck op.

Children managed shopping with adults long before snacks became a common babysitter.

It's not good to shove food at them every time they kick off, as that's what they'll end up kicking off for in the end.

I'll probably get shot for this but here goes....

No, I don't consider this behaviour to be "normal", but learnt. I have 2 children who are now 13 & 9 and they never behaved this way. Does your 2 year old normally get given snacks in his pushchair when he asks for them? If so, then he has learnt that if screams for long enough you will give in, which you did. As for the restaurant behaviour, this is totally unacceptable. You teach your kids how to behave in public, which means sitting nicely with some colouring and conversation, not running around annoying everyone else . If they choose to not do this, then you give them warning that you will leave if they don't stop the undesired behaviour.