Are my kids naughty or normal

They're fine, thanks.

Some of it is down to parenting and their expectations. Supermarkets are big overwhelming overstimulating places. Children need taught how to behave in them over time, it doesn't just happen. Some parents do this naturally and subconsciously others need to think and plan how they do it. Of course the type of toddler you have is also another big factor!!

I planned supermarket shops to make sure they were not too long and I didn't need too much in one trip so it wasn't as stressful for either of us. I did this either by getting online deliveries for non perishables or dc staying at home while I or dh shopped

ds was always in the trolley seat in the supermarket while he fitted in it, he was taught supermarkets are a place to do your shopping not a playground. He never expected to get out of the trolley in the context of a supermarket, it was his norm. I would try to keep him engaged with the shopping list and putting things in the trolley from his seat, or give him something to hold and talk about it. If he started showing signs of getting stressed/bored we would finish the trip quickly and one of us would go back later for anything missed until his tolerance grew with age (I appreciate not everyone has the flexibility, support or time to jumped back in the car quickly later without dc).

By the time he was too big for the trolley seat he had a good idea the supermarket was not a playground and certain behaviour was expected. He was taught to stay beside the trolley and we basically transferred what he learnt in the trolley seat to walking, he knew he was not allowed to touch anything on the shelves, as we stuck to firm consistent boundaries, unless we were buying it, so only touched and put in the trolley when he was told we were buying it.

Restaurants are the same, they need shown at home to sit at a table with family for the duration of meals and then transfer those skills to restaurants and they will learn how to behave. If they are taught at home boredom is alleviated with portable screens they are going to want them out and about. If they get screens to calm them down when they tantrum, they will tantrum as they were taught that.

Consistency is the key I think at that age so they know what is expected of them.

You knew her answer would be that they're adults so she's been through it and therefore can safely speak from experience?

This thread is making me so happy that we're out of the toddler stage (only just!)

I was feeling sad about it, but not any more 😂it's such hard work but you will get through it op 💐

You’re embarrassing yourself now…

I would not be taking that age to a restaurant it's not fun for anyone. I never take my two kids food shopping unless they are worn out. It seems like you're making your life unesasarily hard.

Actually people have given plenty of advice but you've chosen to ignore it all and become defensive. Presumably you know their behaviour is bad or you wouldn't have asked?

Anyway, keep shoving an iPad in their hands, that'll do the trick. It's clearly working so well up to now.

Exactly...

You can and should strap a four year old into a high chair.

Why ever not?

Although it does sound as if you need to be firmer OP, some of these replies are a bit high handed.

A child’s behaviour isn’t totally down to our ‘skill’ as a parent. The most balanced replies on here are from people with two quite different children who are acknowledging it’s also linked to the child’s character and are offering helpful ways of managing and limiting the tantrums / their inability to sit still.

Wailing for snacks - next time go prepared with some snacks and have them ready. Look for triggers and preempt them. Have snacks and a drink and something to play with wherever you go. I had little "busy bags" and would get them to put a toy in and add a crayon or two and some pictures or plain paper.

Food should NEVER be used as a substitute for parenting.

There are enough children and adults struggling with weight and poor food relationships, without actually telling them to comfort or boredom eat.

Stop the food and step up to deal with perfectly normal toddler tantrums.

Normal. They're 2 and 3. Well done for eating out with them, and going shopping with them both.

All the women on here saying you need to be tougher on them...bet they stuck their kids in nursery all day so never actually dealt with them in a day to day situation..😂

I knew that would be your answer.

Oh OP, we're going through this at the moment. It's exhausting. No matter what though, we never give into screen time. I've watched this play out with my nephew. He's now 9yrs old and just can't do anything without a tablet. You can get away with small kids having tantrums (lots of sympathetic looks all round) but when a 9yr old kicks off no one has time for that.

You have to follow through. When you say something you have to do it. Kids needs to be able to rely on adults to mean what they say - even if it's discipline. If you say you'll be there to pick them up for school - you mean it. When you say you're going to take them out of the park for bad behaviour - you mean it. There's no real difference. That builds secure kids. They know their parents say what they mean and they can trust it.

This is exactly my experience.
My eldest two (both boys) were very well behaved in restaurants/coffee shops, and would happily sit for a couple of hours doing some drawing or sticker books.

When I saw other children misbehave, I used to wonder why their parents didn't "just bring a sticker book" 😳

I cringe now, because that smugness came back to bite me on the arse when I had DC3 (a girl). The interest in colouring or sticker books lasted all of 5 minutes, before she'd be trying to get down from the table, whinging, wanting to run around, tantrumming when stopped from doing so.

There's only a year between her and DS2, and he had to put up with being taken home countless times despite his behaviour being good.
She was just of a different personality, and definitely not ready for eating out as a toddler/preschooler.

This is exactly the type of miserable, child-hating attitude I was talking about in my post. You’ve embodied this attitude perfectly!

I don’t think your children are naughty, they are little and learning how to behave and it’s your job to teach them but that doesn’t happen overnight. I have 3 boys, they have always been been pretty easy to take out and about especially my eldest who is quite placid but they have definitely had their moments too.

Places like restaurants, tell them what to expect beforehand, look at menus ahead so you can order quickly. Have something for them to do, colouring, little puzzles or Lego, something to keep them occupied, include them in the conversation. Ask for some bread or breadsticks to come before food so they can snack. If they get up and run around tell them they can’t do that and why and that if they do it again then you will need to leave and follow through. You don’t have to shout and scare them but mean what you say.

Just keep being consistent and they will learn.

I'm not sure why you asked about the ages of my children, OP.

All four of them are adults now, as it happens.

Is it relevant?

Actually OP, you're wrong in your last post, because most people on this thread are trying to impart their advice, it's just advice you don't want to hear. You are too soft on your children and you need to better enforce boundaries. If that means 'your' plans get ruined, then so be it (not that I understand the concept of 'your' plans when you're out with 2 kids). You need to set expectations and follow through with consequences. And yes, a nearly 4 year old can be forcibly made to sit on/in anything

I agree but I have tried talking to them and they don't listen I don't like to shout as I was shouted at a lot as a child and don't like to lose control it happens sometimes but scaring them is the only thing that seems to have some impact
You don't 'talk' to children that age in these circumstances. You don't shout either. You use a tone of voice that is very firm and making it clear you mean business.

If that alon doesn't work, you do introduce consequences. You tell them before going out what behaviour you expect. You then tell them what reward they can expect if they act well and what they consequences will be if they don't. You tell them you'll warn them twice but after that, the consequences will apply.

Iv done the 'we'll go home' and I had to leave my friend there and then. I didn't want to and felt bad , although my friend said I was doing the right thing. Massive tantrum but....after that, I just had to mention that event and the consequences for them to suddenly behaved. It was a pain then but the best investment for the next outings.

No I wouldn't accept running around a cafe at all and wouldn't meet up with someone who did tbh.

But get creative- it's only a phase and this is where they're at now.

Meet up elsewhere more child friendly instead with stuff for them to do - go to a play area (fenced in one) with picnic benches and take hot flask so the kids can run around like loons. We mainly did outdoors to get the wriggles out when small. (And I was stingy about cafe prices tbh)

Wailing for snacks - next time go prepared with some snacks and have them ready. Look for triggers and preempt them. Have snacks and a drink and something to play with wherever you go. I had little "busy bags" and would get them to put a toy in and add a crayon or two and some pictures or plain paper.

You can't strap an unwilling 4 year old into a highchair, that is true.

So you either don't take them to restaurants until they're old enough to stop running around, or you warn them they'll go home immediately if they start.

And see that warning through every time.

I think it is normal but you must not give in to tantrums as that is just setting up for more trouble when they are older.
I don't care how much my DD screams, I won't give in. Like other pp's, I give 3 warnings and make it very clear what the consequences are. If DD ignores them, then I make the consequences happen. It could be going home, removal of a toy but I always follow through even if it ruins my plans.
You will find that after a few times of seeing it through, they will start to listen.
There is no need to shout or scare them. Just be firm. Short term pain now for long term gain when they are older.