Are my kids naughty or normal

Oh op it’s so hard isn’t it! I also have kids that are a bit mad to say the least, and all I can do is make sure they get a ton of running around the park ect to tire them out, even before nursery which thankfully isn’t till after lunch. But generally if I’m visiting a cafe it’s short and strict expectations are laid out beforehand. I would leave rather than let them run around in it though. I tend to do park walks with friends or visits to my home if I’m solo with the kids though so any issues are less likely to crop up. It won’t be forever and I know really with mine, it’s just too much to expect from them and others to catch up with friends in a communal indoor space! When they are a bit more sensible I will bring them to cafes more but for now I just know I won’t enjoy it and they won’t enjoy it nor would anyone in my company.

Sure, I have had tough days. DS absolutely wasn't a placid kid who would sit and colour at that age. Come to think of it, he's 5 now and still probably wouldn't entertain it, so I totally get how difficult it is!

My issue was the OP's admission that she didn't want to miss out on a restaurant meal with a friend, therefore chose to allow her kids to 'run around cackling'. In that scenario, my kid who struggles to sit still would want to join in and I'd (not for the first time) be the evil mum who prevented it.

Parenting is hard, but it's significantly easier for those who allow their children to run amok without boundaries.

She allowed her child to run cackling around a restaurant

Do 2.5yos colour in? Mine would have just tried to eat the crayon or done a massive scrawl on a sheet of paper before lobbing it across the room.

With due respect op doesn’t sound like she’s zoned out. Quite a cruel thing for one parent to say about another. She was just having a difficult day. Surely you’ve had a few of those yourself?

Laughing at the idea of bringing a colouring book to a cafe for my DS when he was 2-5 years old!!!! Jesus christ some people have no idea how lucky they are with their chilled out DC.

Get shopping delivered or do it while they're at home with their dad / granny. It's a hiding to nowhere trying to force it. This stage doesn't last forever, my DS is 7 now and will go round the supermarket quite sensibly. Aged 2-5 he most definitely could not.. unless ill...!!

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I'd love to hear the OP's rationale as to why other people, i.e. me, should have to contend with maintaining discipline for my child when out in public and making sure that he doesn't do things like run around in restaurants, whilst she feel that societal norms shouldn't apply to her and her kids because she doesn't get out much?

One of the most difficult aspects of parenting isn't managing tantrums - everyone has to deal with those. Instead, it's trying to maintain standards of behaviour with your child in the midst of other people's kids running riot because other parents have chosen to zone out and feel that their social occasion trumps anything else.

But a high-spirited boy will knock spots off a high-spirited girl any day

That is 100 per cent because we put different social and behaviour expectations on boys and girls. Boys are allowed to get away with things that girls never would. I have noticed this recently at the pool I take my kids to for lessons. Boys are allowed to run around the changing rooms screaming, shouting and making a nuisance of themselves without intervention from their adult. Most weeks there will be one or two boys who are allowed to run riot. They really are given the message about entitlement to take over a space early on!

But a high-spirited boy will knock spots off a high-spirited girl any day

You've not met my DD! She run rings round "high spirited boys".

This. Yes, and I was curious as to where the 'bullying' accusation came from. Again, this is a rather concerning comment considering the job she tells us she does.

I agree. I don't get out much with friends either, so when I go, I don't want it to be ruined by somebody else children running around screaming.

I would not have tolerated that behaviour from my son. Colouring books, card games, things to do sat at a table. OP needs to go back to basics with acceptable behaviour. Stay home and practice OP.

I would also try shopping with one child and let them know my behaviour expectations.

If you're giving them screens , please use headphones.

I didn't take my child to restaurants at that age as it wasn't enjoyable.

I would suggest meeting your friend at a cafe in a park where you can sit outside and the kids can play on the grass/playground. Bring some toys/football with you.

I think there's a line between being a hard arse and bribing children to shut up with food.
It's role modelling behaviour, firm expectations and crucially allowing your emotionally disregulated child to express themselves but removing them to a less public location to cool off .
My DH was given treats to keep him quiet, he has major issues with food.
It's not emotionally nor physically healthy to do this.
" Eat your feelings"

You will regret giving into their tantrums! As kids get older the tantrums will
continue because they know you give in, but they’ll be over bigger things… my friend has 2 kids and she always gave into them for an easier life…. Now they’re 13 and she’s having a nightmare with them! They’re unruly, have no respect for her or teachers and are always being excluded from school!
you need to put your foot down now and break them of these awful behaviours, otherwise you won’t have friends wanting to socialise with you…. I have only ever seen my friend without her kids because I simply can’t cope with their horrible attitudes.

People who say "you must crack down hard on this with a rod of iron, or you'll raise hooligans / social misfits / spoilt brats " are not giving the children's developmental abilities enough credit.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Their brains just can't hack stuff sometimes. As they develop, it gets easier. Time is your friend here.

Yesterday getting my 4 year old out of the bath- even last year she'd throw a tantrum because she'd want to stay in. She'd throw a tantrum most times she didn't get her way. Especially struggling with transitions too. I hated taking her to soft play or the playground because every time we'd leave, she would lose it so much, that I regretted the whole trip. I must be honest, occasionally I didn't take her. I couldn't handle it sometimes.

This rarely happens now. Is it because I was ' super strict EVERY SINGLE time ' and a complete hard arse ? I don't think so. Of course I parented her and I would take her home anyway etc. but you know what I would do a lot when we'd leave softplay ? I would get her an ice cream next door. This was the only way to get her to stop screaming. Sometimes I would buy her a magazine from a shop while she was having a tantrum, to distract her and shut her up. Most of the time, I stayed quite firm, but I definitely did give in sometimes.

She just doesn't pull that crap anymore now- why ? Because she's developed and she can handle her own emotions better. Not because I was a hard arse, every single time. I'm just speaking for my experience with my child.

Every child is different, perhaps the hard arse approach works with other kids. It hasn't with mine.

Yes, that's really hard, and she has all my sympathy .... it feels like yet another sacrifice at a time when you're already sacrificing so much.

I posted all that to try to remind her that this hard time doesn't go on for ever. What seems impossible now (training DCs to sit quietly) will become possible later - not necessarily through ruthless discipline, but through them growing up a bit as well. People who say "you must crack down hard on this with a rod of iron, or you'll raise hooligans / social misfits / spoilt brats " are not giving the children's developmental abilities enough credit.

Over indulgent parenting such as the above example bullying my arseis just as harmful as critical strict parenting, this is what happens when people have ACE .
The traumatised adult is overly permissive instead of parenting firmly but fairly.
The fact that there is also zero considerations for others is a massive red flag

Op would indeed be wise to avoid restaurants if she finds its too much for her DC but has already said she wants to go as she will be the one who misses out .

I'm a social worker and foster carer. I specialise in teens.

Then I'd hope you would be less prone to being judgmental and melodramatic than your post shows. How can you possibly refer to 'marching them' out of a cafe or say that taking them home amounts to 'bullying' on no evidence whatsoever? So in your world, small children shouting and running around in a dangerous environment is OK (hot food/hot plates - how many more times does it need to be said?). Well, for a social worker and foster carer that's enlightening to know.

And perhaps I could remind you that even social workers get things wrong - quite often, actually - and often very badly wrong. Yes?

This!! Spot on

Many apologies, Infusedwithchamomileandmint, I'll correct this.

Ps. Op sure you are doing great as a parent. They are still very little!

My children are special needs, I had to teach them what I expected of them.

From a young age I took them to places such as restaurants. If they didn't sit semi quietly to colour or play with fidget toys then I payed the bill and left weather we had eaten or not
It took time and we still have back slides with my youngest (had a meltdown Saturday in a bakery because they didn't have cake like weather spoons, his adult sister took him out the building) but if your firm with those boundaries it helps them know what behaviour you expect.

Before going places your children normally miss expectations in could you take them somewhere they can run off excess energy?
If a screen (with headphones) is needed to help self regulate then go for it, my 8 year old needs it after demands have been placed on him such as school so he can zone out and regulate his emotions

Eh??
I think you have replied to me when you meant to reply to @pookie999