To vaccinate newborn or not

Did you ever see your children playing tag on a motorway and refuse to intervene?

Or are you making a false equivalence?

I never stopped my children playing tag on the motorway. Two are now adults and one is a teenager. They all managed to avoid the cars and lorries. Never got run over. They are able to avoid risks on busy roads as adults if they choose to do so.

It's a personal choice and you will get strong opinions either way.

Some people say I was a bad parent to put my children at risk like that even though they survived my poor choices. I am stupid and ignorant so I ignore them.

I am very pro vaccination but still felt nervous before taking my tiny baby for them! I did it because they do save lives, and the risk of an adverse effect from a vaccination is so slight compared to the risk of a serious illness or death from a preventable disease.

I think people calling you stupid are being really mean, its completely understandable to be worried about your baby and to want to learn more and hear other opinions. The information online can be overwhelming and you can likely find very convincing arguments for any opinion on the matter. I would stick to reputable websites and organisations and try not to get sucked into any rabbit holes- I'm sure some people have valid concerns about potential side effects but there is also a staggering amount of anti-vax nonsense about!

I'm glad you've decided to get the vaccinations done and I hope your little one is fine- mine was a bit sleepy after the first set but no temperature or any other side effects thankfully, we didn't need to give her any calpol just extra cuddles. Even if your little one does get a bit unwell, that's very normal so please don't panic. I'm sure the nurse will give you a leaflet with tips on what to expect and what to do if you're concerned. Remember that they have to mention really horrible side effects that are extremely unlikely, try not to worry too much and good luck- it will be worse for you than it will be for baba 😊

Reasons to get children vaccinated -

Pre vaccines, my Mum's sister died from diptheria, aged 12.

Best friend's sister contracted Polio before she was old enough for vaccination - has spent her life in a wheelchair.

Another acquaintance refused to get her daughter vaccinated because she played outside a lot, was vegetarian, so that meant her immune system was strong, right? Wrong. Her daughter contracted German Meales at 7 and has since been profoundly deaf. The daughter no longer speaks to her mother because she can't believe she could easily have been vaccinated and not spent her life disabled.

I was given the BCG at three days old due to an outbreak of TB in the area of the uk I was living in at the time. I suffered no long term effects.

I have always vaccinated my children against anything that will give them immunity e.g. MMR etc...

I did NOT vaccinate my children against Covid, as this isn't a preventative vaccine, just one that will potentially lessen the symptoms.

To everyone piling on the OP - no one has ever been convinced of anything by being told they’re an ‘idiot’! This is why the ‘other side’ wins at this game - they are empathetic, they respond to your concerns by vilifying ‘others’, look at the establishment or the mainstream calling you an idiot because you have questions, etc!
she’s asking questions! Answer them rather than push her away into the arms of QAnon and whoever else who will definitely cause harm!!!!

We are wired to focus on the negative, because threats require a response so you can return to safety. Our brains aren’t wired to focus on good news because they aren’t a threat, they don’t require responses

The fear that the bad one induces is exactly why disinformation flourishes. You are doing the right thing in seeking information but make sure you get it from trusted sources. The NHS and healthcare staff just wants people to be healthy, they have no hidden agenda. We can’t say the same about randos on the internet that don’t have anyone to answer to. Medical research is VERY tightly regulated. @confusedaboutclothes

I recommend a wander round some old churchyards, looking at 19thC graves where 3, 4 or more children from the same family were buried within the same month - doubtless when some epidemic of e.g. measles was doing the rounds.

My dd2 was born in Abu Dhabi, where newborn babies were routinely vaccinated against TB, which was fairly common there. And at 12 months they were given the MMR, which happened only many years later in the U.K.
I didn’t know anyone whose babies were adversely affected at all.

“Google is very vague and is kind of you absolutely should vaccinate, or you shouldn’t, there’s not a lot of grey area”

Because there isn’t a grey area. Sorry but anyone who doesn’t vaccinate (unless advised by a medically qualified specialist not to for a specific reason) is idiotic.

Seriously?

Parents in some countries walk for hours to access life-saving vacinnations but you “don’t like the pressure” to provide your child with free, protective healthcare?

Don't be idiotic and protect your child.

Nothing to do with the original thread, also incredibly sad. However, I do think it's worth mentioning that the biggest and most important thing you can do to protect yourself is not to be having sex early. So many girls having sex at age 15/16 (you only have to read through the threads on here) and then first smear is TEN YEARS later. If you're going to have early sex, you need to take yourself off for a private smear. It's just simple common sense. Amazes me how many young girls are happy to risk sex but don't want to go for smears or any of the other tests to check they're not contracting anything.

@stillmissmyboy - this is such a stigmatising and uninformed post

Firstly, any sexual contact can allow transmission of HPV, so touching, rubbing, sex with condoms. Boys are also at risk - of becoming carriers who will pass it on to other girls and also other types of cancer.

Shaming girls into having no sexual contact whatsoever until they are 25 is a completely useless public health policy given these facts ESPECIALLY when we have a vaccine which is amazingly protective against infection.

Random patronising comment about "young girls" avoiding smear tests but having sex regardless - there's many many reasons people don't want to have them, and again shaming isn't a good public health policy.

FWIW, I paid £££ of my own money to have the HPV vaccine as an adult (just missed it when I was growing up due to age) because replicated data shows just how effective and safe it is.

You don't understand data, screening, public health, vaccines or smears.

All drugs / medicine can cause reactions. As I have said, even paracetamol. My own son nearly died due to breastmilk! But, when comparing to complications from the illnesses vaccinations are there to prevent, the risk is very low.

And not all vaccines work for all people. That is why we rely on herd immunity.

And no one says vaccines are 100% safe. NOTHING is 100% safe.

I know of a woman at 25 who has cervical cancer at her first smear. Mum didn't consent for her to be vaccinated at 15 as it was 'too early'. Too late now.

Nothing to do with the original thread, also incredibly sad. However, I do think it's worth mentioning that the biggest and most important thing you can do to protect yourself is not to be having sex early. So many girls having sex at age 15/16 (you only have to read through the threads on here) and then first smear is TEN YEARS later. If you're going to have early sex, you need to take yourself off for a private smear. It's just simple common sense. Amazes me how many young girls are happy to risk sex but don't want to go for smears or any of the other tests to check they're not contracting anything.

You simply can't say it's 100% to do with missing the HPV vaccine. You can minimise your own chances. We shouldn't just presume we are 'safe' becuase we've had the vaccine.

Going back to the original thread, as I have already said, my son was vaccinated and contracted whooping cough. The vaccine simply didn't work on him at all (consultant confirmed this)

For every story I'm reading on here of 'this child didn't have the vaccine and died/lost a leg/became deaf' etc, there is a story of a baby having an MMR and dying days later, or a young girl having the HPV vaccine and developing major problems. Re the HPV one, have a read of this poor girl's story.

https://www.facebook.com/ChloesVaccineInjuryJourney

Can we all just agreed on one thing? Having a vaccine IS a risk. Not being vaccinated is ALSO a risk. You pick your risk and you have to be comfortable with that.

It's a fact that someone getting the vaccine will have an awful reaction to it, possibly life changing. Saying they're 100% safe is simply untrue. Tell that to poor Chloe above.

With respect, I think this sort of statement shows exactly what a terrible state of affairs we are now in (the idiotic refusal to trust experts stems from a lack of understanding of what an 'expert' actually is, and what makes someone reliable/trustable), and indicates that many people don't know what 'science' actually is.

'Scientific method' is being able to prove a hypothesis by testing (and re-testing) to see if the same conditions yield the same results. Scientists will test a hypothesis to see if they can disprove it. The scientific method includes making observations at various stages of an experiment which provides data that can prove or disprove a hypothesis (or theory if you'd rather).

Good science (eg, science that is done correctly, transparently, peer-reviewed (that means, hauled over the critical coals by a panel of 'peers' - other highly regarded scientists who will try to find flaws - and if necessary, run through a series of trials) is GOOD. At the point at which it's done, we can trust it. One hundred years into the future, I hope people will still be able to trust good science, even if it comes to different conclusions, because good science uses the best methodology at the time.

With medicine, we do our best to make decisions based on what we know at the time. 'What we know' comes (or should come from) up to date scientific research. This may be a bit different in the future - that's a good thing, it shows our methods are progressing, 'science' is able to utilise better methods, materials, etc. Surely you're in favour of scientific progress - or perhaps you'd like to get cancer 70 years ago and see what your outcome would be?

If you don't agree with this rationale, then you may as well go back to sucking toad stones and applying magic poultices.

and the research is very tightly regulated

If you feel up to it, you should go back and make a complaint about that MW. Not to cause her trouble, but to prevent that mistake happening to any other women - this MW appears to need some retraining

Although the jab is most effective before 32 weeks (to allow time for the antibodies you produce to pass to your baby), it remains effective beyond that, and NHS recommends it up to the onset of labour.

Midwives should not be giving out incorrect information, nor denying pregnant women the jabs they are recommended to have

"COVID-19 vaccination is effective and the safest way to protect yourself from COVID-19." Right at the top of the NHS page about Covid vaccination.

"The coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines are safe and effective."

"All of the approved vaccines are shown to be safe." British Heart Foundation

Just a few of dozens of claims you can find with a quick Google.

I went for the full programme of vaccines for both my children. I'm pretty mainstream pro-science. I used to say that people who didn't vaccine were idiots or freeloaders.

Then I got whooping cough at the age of 42 (a while ago now sadly), posted in a very bad-tempered way here about "anti-vax idiots" and - much to my surprise - ended up with a far better appreciation of where people who don't vaccinate are coming from as a result. I still don't agree with them, but I'm not rude to them or about them nowadays.

As part of this process I read lots stuff from both sides: by pro-vax (Paul Offit etc) and anti-vax (Andrew Wakefield etc). It was all very interesting. I didn't end up agreeing with Wakefield, but I ended up sympathising with him more than I expected.

I ended up reckoning that it's mostly a question of trust: how much do you trust the medical authorities etc? I trust them myself, but not everyone does, for a whole bunch of reasons. That's not something you fix by calling people stupid or other names.

I don't know how best to advocate my point of view to the OP or anyone else for that matter. I think it's the right one - but there's no point in my being heavy-handed about it.

I suppose the best advice I can give is this: try to put things together in your head so there aren't any conspiracy theories or lots of people being bad generally - that everyone is trying to do the right thing. It doesn't leave much room for Big Pharma being an evil conspiracy, but it also doesn't leave much room for anti-vax people being dishonest or bad or whatever. I'm cool with all of that.