To vaccinate newborn or not

I had measles when I was about 4 (I'm mid-60s). I had a mild case but I was so unwell - I remember the headache and the light intolerance. Please, please vaccinate your child.

This is such a thoughtful and insightful post, really appreciated it.

I have a 3 week old baby. I will definitely have her fully vaccinated just like my other two children.

regardless of your view on vaccines - if you google how many babies are born each year you can see why the communication is impersonal - it is a box ticking exercise as they want to make sure as many babies as possible are protected.

I was a journalist did a lot of research into whooping cough (pertussis) and the vaccine. I did this because my eldest got whooping cough at primary school - he was fully vaccinated - and gave it to me - I was vaccinated too - and I gave it to my newborn son, who was too young to be vaccinated yet and became quite ill. In the course of my research I spoke to an expert GP in pertussis, and he was very clear that the pertussis vaccine does not stop people catching or spreading it, as is widely believed. More than that, he estimated that only 1 in 100 cases of whooping cough was ever diagnosed and notified. The best it can do is ameliorate the disease.

This idea that vaccines are 100% effective and stop spread is simply not true. Some are very effective, and do stop spread, even entirely eliminating the disease (smallpox). Many vaccines, however, are only partially effective. We know this from the Covid vaccines, which turned out not to stop people catching Covid and not to stop spreading, even though we were all assured they would. There is also a growing body of research that indicates the MRNA vaccines can have lethal side effects, and in some groups - especially young healthy men - the risk from the vaccine is higher than the risk from Covid. It will take years for this to be acknowledged, just as it took years for the people who developed narcolepsy as a result of the swine flu vaccine (many were NHS workers forced to have the vaccine) to be compensated.

OP, ignore all the people calling you stupid and ill informed. You are absolutely right not to believe everything you're told. I can't give you a definitive answer whether to vaccinate or not. I did decide to have all mine given the MMR in stages, but I absolutely would not have the MRNA covid vaccine given to my child. There are too many unanswered questions as to the effect on the immune system, and Covid very rarely causes problems for healthy children.

I do think if somebody is anxious or wants to know more then NHS leaflets aren't always the best resource. They're really an introduction to a topic, and written to be very accessible (quite rightly) for people with a lower reading age, or English as an additional language etc. They don't usually go into much depth.

I think in this case the Doctor or health visitor would have been better talking to the OP rather than sending her onto the internet.

These are really good/worth looking into.

https://backtothevax.com/ - mum who vaccinated her first child and was then convinced that a poorly-timed virus was a "vaccine reaction" by an antivax facebook group, got very pulled into this world, felt very anxious about things in general, then started to notice some discrepancies in the messaging around COVID (e.g. the mums on the group had previously said "If there's an epidemic, we'll socially distance and wash hands!" - but then when COVID hit they actually turned 180 degrees on this and refused to do those things because that was "propaganda") - she then after a while left the group and started looking more into vaccines from another side and now feels positive towards them and wants to help other people find fact from fiction. Her mental health is much better since leaving the groups. Apologies, there are some needle images on this site (I used to find that hard/scary). If you don't want to see the images try searching "back to the vax" on podcasts or youtube and listen to any interview with the hosts here.

QAnon Anonymous Episode 218 "Died Suddenly" - Excellent interview with Dr. Dan Wilson (DebunkTheFunk) who really understands the antivax movement and the concerns of parents pulled into it, inside out. I really really liked this podcast, it is respectful, it is done well. It mostly focuses on the COVID vaccines, not other vaccines. I think he also did an interview on the Back to the Vax podcast if you would prefer to listen to one which is centred on the standard baby vaccines. He also has a youtube page but I find these individual videos quite dry and boring to watch - maybe helpful if you are looking to see the other side of a specific claim.

Apple link: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-218-died-suddenly-feat-dr-dan-wilson/id1428209307?i=1000598579680
Android: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zb3VuZGNsb3VkLmNvbS91c2Vycy9zb3VuZGNsb3VkOnVzZXJzOjQ5MjEzNTQyMC9zb3VuZHMucnNz/episode/dGFnOnNvdW5kY2xvdWQsMjAxMDp0cmFja3MvMTQ0MjA4ODI5OA?sa=X&ved=0CAgQuIEEahcKEwj42-Oe4dKDAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQLA

Parents, you are being Lied To - something I read a few years after I wrestled with this myself and breathed a sigh of relief and wished I'd had access to it originally. Unfortunately most of the links are now dead, but I did follow them at the time and they were good.

There is a Channel 4 Dispatches called "The Anti Vax Conspiracy" which is excellent. This was new information for me - previous to watching this documentary, I thought that most people sharing antivax info genuinely believed in what they were saying and had real concerns which were probably just wrong, whether they were the people regurgitating what others had said, parents who had experienced children they felt were "harmed" by vaccines, or so-called experts who presented the info from their end. From watching this I found out that, alarmingly, the group of "experts" claiming that vaccination is the cause of any number of terrible things are a VERY small group of people, all connected to alternative health companies, all standing to gain a great deal from turning people away from mainstream medicine, and even worse if you go right to the top of a lot of the claims, they have enough knowledge and would have had to pull data from a larger set in such a way that they could not possibly think that they are right. They KNOW that they are wrong but choose to portray misinformation on purpose.

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1112270/7585768-the-anti-vaccine-movement - Podcast "You're Wrong about: The anti-vaccine movement". This is badly titled IMO and is more about the demonisation of autism as this awful terrible thing. I didn't think the antivax debunking content was that good, it was quite surface level. But it was a great, informative, horrifying podcast anyway.

Any pharma product is rigorously tested before being allowed to market.

The facebook warriors posting "we don't know the effects of this vaccine" are talking absolute shite.

The general public are not qualified to comment on vaccine safety. No science degree - no opinion.

Trust the medics and scientists.

Just look up Diphtheria. Then think about what you have posted.

@TravelInHope I'm aware it been added now - but my kids are late teens and two have had it so too late for us.

It is good it's there now and nice they are sure it won't affect shingles cases - but still think it should have been added earlier and children prioritized.

No wonder some people don't think for themselves, you clearly don't have the capacity to. Or the capacity to have a conversation that involves independent thoughts that are relevant but not directly related. Or to step back and see multiple sides of a topic. But yes, random person, thank you for letting everybody know that was the end of the conversation because you can't see the relevance.

The process by which the covid vaccine was licenced is unlike that for any of the vaccines offered to babies. So, I'd take that out of the equation.

It's unlikely that you have access to the computing resources, data and professional skills to adequately research the various vaccinations, so it's probably best you rely on the conclusions drawn by those they do.

It's not unreasonable to be concerned, it would be weird not to be. But every immunolgist I know, and I know a lot, has their kids vaccinated.

That’s because there isn’t a lot of grey area. I’m old enough to have had measles, mumps and rubella. All horrible, even the rubella which is supposedly mild. One of my aunts died of whooping cough, aged five. Get your baby vaccinated.

My Nana lost her 4 year old brother and her 2 year old sister to diseases that we now routinely vaccinate against.

My father had TB as a child and suffered from the consequences throughout his life.

A family friend had polio and was left unable to use one of his legs.

I had a case of “mild” whooping cough as a child (no vaccination available then) and spent the 6 weeks summer holiday being horribly ill. I remember coughing until I was sick over and over again.

The alternative is that you can give your baby the best chance possible to escape those consequences and grow up healthy.

Oh gosh this is a very hot topic. When I was a little girl in the 90s I used to go with my grandmother who helped do physio for a lady of my mum’s generation who got measles in the early 70s when she was 8 or 9 and was permanently brain damaged from it. She died a few years ago. I think because of vaccines we don’t have that collective memory of how bad it can be to contract these diseases

I know this is a very sensitive subject, but i’m asking please for FACTS only - I don’t want answers like ‘because the NHS recommends you to vaccinate your baby etc’

But those are the facts. The NHS recommends it because it protects your child from some diseases that can be fatal.

Id like to point out i’m not ‘anti vax’ as such, but covid really opened my eyes to researching vaccines etc

I don't think the routine vaccines are in the same ballpark as the Covid vaccine. Any problems with that one are because the vaccine was rushed out really quickly. Whereas we've been using the routine ones for ages and they were well tested.

Just a bit of anecdata - I am 48 and my mum was antivaxx. I ended up with visual impairment due to brain damage from measles aged 5, then asthma as a result of whooping cough at age 12.

Oh and please don’t think of the invitations, reminder letters and texts as you being hassled or pressured. Think of it as just ways of trying to ensure we keep your baby as safe as possible. We know life with a baby is busy and tiring, so we try and help you make and keep appointments to avoid any further stress.

I gave my daughter her vaccines up until the age of 1.
At her 1 year vaccines she had a very bad reaction and it left her suffering server side affects for 2 years.
I can honestly say il never vaccinate her again.

You're focusing on the anti-Vax posts? Give over

Pull up a chair and have a chat with me.

I’m a nurse practitioner in a GP surgery. I’ve worked in primary care for 24 years and nursed in hospitals for nearly ten years before that. I have given thousands and thousands of baby immunisations.

I can tell you about the 15 year old I nursed on a Paeds ward in a persistent vegetative state due to measles encephalitis if you like. Or the unvaccinated 18 month old we admitted recently with meningitis who is still on PICU. Or the handful of babies and toddlers I’ve seen with vaccine preventable pneumonia. Or the parents of children, immigrants from countries with limited options for vaccines who have walked miles in the searing heat to have their babies vaccinated. Or the adults I’ve met over the years with physical disabilities, deafness, learning disabilities and brain damage from things like polio, measles, rubella and diphtheria.

No one likes vaccinating babies. I hate hurting small babies with sharp stingy needles, and it goes against every one of our maternal instincts to hold our new, vulnerable, precious baby whilst someone injects them with god knows what. But it’s way better than holding their tiny hand when they’re on a ventilator, or god forbid holding their coffin.

@confusedaboutclothes - I would suggest that you google some of the diseases that the vaccines protect against - diphtheria, polio, tetanus, measles and whooping cough can all kill children, or cause lasting damage.

Of course, it is unlikely that your child will come across these diseases - because the majority of parents get their children vaccinated, creating herd immunity, so these diseases cannot get a foothold. But they haven't disappeared altogether, and to my mind, the risks to a child if they catch one of these diseases are far, far greater than any potential risk from the vaccine.

It is also worth remembering that these vaccines have been around for decades, so the evidence about their safety is very well established.

I do understand being anxious about these things - I am an anxious person, and I do know how hard it is to get rid of these intrusive thoughts and worries - but I hope this thread will reassure you so you can go ahead and get your baby vaccinated.

You’ll find an article on the internet to support just about any theory you come up with! Once you follow one rabbit hole the algorithms will
show you more. Just stop googling and go with the majority and vaccinate.

Why do you think the NHS are so keen to get your child vaccinated when it costs them money to do so? What do they have to gain?

Have you researched what the various illnesses might do to your unvaccinated child? However much a parent might agonise about introducing vaccines into their child's body you need to understand that the illnesses themselves would not hesitate to invade that vulnerable body.

People fixate about the MMR because of the autism controversy but what about other illnesses such as meningitis, diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, hep b? How many illnesses would you want your child to be exposed to or contract. What if they caught two at the same time? How about illnesses mostly eradicated such as polio? Why are so few people now placed in iron lungs? "In 1959, there were 1,200 people using iron lungs in the U.S., but by 2017, there were only three. Due to the near eradication of polio in most of the world with Jonas Salk's vaccine in 1952, the use of iron lungs is largely obsolete."

Agree. I find it appalling that we still casually just accept chicken pox in the UK when so many countries vaccinate against it.