To vaccinate newborn or not

I feel like the reason you have the privilege to question vaccines just goes to show how important vaccinating babies is, and how it has done such a good job that you no longer have to worry about the threat.

But as more people dont vaccinate, more babies and children will start getting seriously ill again.

The internet is full of misinformation and propoganda- read legitamate reasearch papers, look at the stats. Childhood vaccines are incredible and have saved so many lives.

Sadly, herd immunity (from parents who did vaccinate their kids) is on the wane.
Those non vaccinating parents can no longer rely on other parents protecting their child/ren.
So more important to vaccinate now than ever
10,000 kids died per year from pertusis (whooping cough) pre vaccination.
My dad had a cousin who died from polio.
It seems to me that people who have never seen/heard of these diseases are very blasé about them.
Anyone who has ever seen a child suffer or die from these diseases will ever forget it.

I remember an epidemiologist during COVID saying the only way to be immune from any illness is to be vaccinated. If your children have childhood vaccinations, do they need boosters through adult life, or does childhood vaccination give lifetime immunity?

If you do decide to vaccinate, there is nothing wrong with waiting until your baby is a bit older than their set schedule or if you want to space out dual vaccines for a bit.

unless of course they catch those deseases in the mean time

Agree

to say you’ve done readers h is not looking at google

no no no. Proper read watch needs to be published. What papers have you published with regards to your research please?

Just this really.

I have vaccinated both of mine (reminded me I still need to book boosters!). The only thing that didn't sit well with me is that there are even more jabs these days and at 1 appointment she had 4 jabs, 2 in each leg! I did think this was a bit much in 1 session.
I don't take up the flu vaccinations.

I'm sure your "research" Google and fb is far more accurate than decades of work by drs and epidemiologists...

Ffs

My son, got measles before he was vaccinated. He was soo poorly

Vaccines save lives

@confusedaboutclothes OP I am glad you came to the conclusion that vaccination is the way to go and sorry you have had some rude responses on here.

just wanted to mention an interesting point. the reason your brain latches on more to the negative articles about vaccines is because our brains have evolved to respond much more and retain negative information. I suppose its a survival instinct we evolved. there have been studies that demonstrate this. this is why my no 1 advice to all patients is - don't Google it. I encourage looking up credible resources such as the NHS website or other specialist resources depending on the circumstance, but just blind googling is dangerous. if feeds fears and misinformation. I sympathise that obviously you use the resources you have at hand, but Dr Google is not to be trusted.

You know that GP surgeries get paid per vaccine yes?

So they’re biased in the information they give out.

When my two were little babies, I felt the same way. Spending time online didn't help, and in particular, I'd think mumsnet would be one of the worst places to find advice or guidance. Most people posting here also don't have medical degrees, haven't done much research, and are following general NHS advice. Not necessarily incorrectly.

Yes, vaccines save lives. Across populations, they do slow or stop the spread of serious diseases. But they also come with some very real and quite scary risks. Vaccine injuries are widely reported and it would be very misleading to say that all vaccines are always safe - it's just not true.

I spoke to my health visitor, practice nurse and several GPs, requesting the patient information leaflets for the vaccines (these can also often be found online, but generally aren't freely offered to parents at appointments). The risks are real, as are the benefits.

If I were you, I'd get off the Internet and trust your instincts and genuine sources of information - vaccine safety trials, patient information leaflets etc. Vaccine injury is extremely unlikely, but it is a possibility. You need to weigh up if the pros outweigh the cons. For most, they do.

Also consider that some parents opt to delay vaccines or spread them out, and there is medical support for this too.

I hope this perspective helps. I'm fully aware that I'm opening myself up to criticism on this thread (funny how "Pro vaxxers" are often as dogmatic or more so than so called "anti vaxxers"!) But I don't think you, or any parent, is wrong to question a medical decision for your child, especially when it does carry risks, and I don't want you to feel wrong for asking questions. Asking the questions doesn't make you "anti", even if mumsnet disagrees!

This is just what I would have wanted to hear when I had a small baby.

Look up the effects of small pox. The effect a of measles. The effects of polio.

then ask yourself if you’re ok if your child contracted any of them. Because the vaccine will stop them.

then ask if you could live with yourself. There are people still living in iron lungs and all sorts!

I’m a microbiologist, I work in pharma, I’m pro vaccine, my children have had all of theirs including the chicken pox vaccine. The Covid vaccine left me with high blood pressure and tachycardia…unfortunately.

if I had another baby would I vaccinate them…yes absolutely

I imagine I’ll be in the minority here but if I was bringing up my babies again, I would not vaccinate them.

My two haven’t had the teen HPV vaccines and they haven’t had the teen boosters.
One chose to have 2 experimental trial vaccines a couple of years ago but they’re an adult and I couldn’t stop them but with my research and persuasion (thanks goodness) my youngest didn’t have any.

Neither had the flu mist.

As babies, both had all of their vaccines except for the dodgy rotavirus one. The side effects were the exact same as what it was supposed to prevent.

@confusedaboutclothes you must do precisely what you want and if something doesn’t feel right, it’s your baby and you’re their mother.

If the NHS/NGS digital/GP surgery/HV etc call you about the same thing 3 times +, put in writing that they’re harassing you and you do not want them to contact you about it any more or you will speak to a solicitor. Temper it by saying you’ll decide what’s best for your baby and that may well change over time but for now, you’ve decided not to pursue it.

If you do decide to vaccinate, there is nothing wrong with waiting until your baby is a bit older than their set schedule or if you want to space out dual vaccines for a bit.

If your baby has them and has ANY side effects (no matter how small) please report those to the MHRA with the Yellow Card System online.

I'm not vaccinated neither is my child. I've looked into it in detail.
I would like to see long term studies showing general health of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. There are a few small scale (so not statistically significant) they show unvaccinated are healthier.
I think there is a good reason why big pharma do not do these studies!

I think the covid vaccine experience is a bit of a red herring when it comes to talking about childhood vaccines. Covid is not generally a deadly disease among children. Therfore the risk of taking a covid vaccine isn't offset by a huge benefit for a child.

Measles however, very much is a deadly disease among children. And those who survive quite often are left with disabilities. I worked with a lady who was left partially sighted after getting measles as a child. I had mumps myself, before the vaccine was brought in. I was only 3 and can still vividly remember being up all night crying because of the excruciating pain in my ears. I was left with ear problems throughout my childhood. The risk / benefit ratio very much leans towards vaccination for these childhood diseases and the relevant vaccines have been around a long time, much longer than the covid vaccines. If they were problematic we would know about it by now.

OP well done for asking and taking everyone's thoughts on board, it's obvious you care for your child.

For those jumping down OPs throat - that is exactly how people get pushed into more extreme rhetoric with groups who validate their concerns.

The disinformation from anti-vaxxers is designed to confuse, they are banking on people ridiculing those who ask genuine questions due to that confusion.

that ridicule then makes it unlikely they will ask again and get good info. They will ask where they haven't been shamed.

My uncle died of diphtheria aged 2

Because they stop your child becoming seriously ill. Let me ask you this time question how would you feel if your child was too become very ill or worse with a disease that would of been preventable with a vacine ?
The nhs is on the bare bones of its arse do you honestly think it would be giveing out millions of free vacines if they didn't deem them necessary to save childrens lives ?

Of course you are worried. There are lots of scare stories out there! Please also be mindful that anyone could reply to you on mumsnet. Look for trusted sources of advice like this NHS page https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/why-vaccination-is-important-and-the-safest-way-to-protect-yourself/

I don’t think it is unreasonable to have some worries about your tiny, vulnerable baby having vaccinations, but I do think you need to weigh that up against the alternatives. As others have said, vaccines have reduced the childhood mortality rate to very low, whereas in the past many children died. This article is interesting in lives saved by vaccines in more recent times https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/213373/vaccines-prevented-37-million-deaths-lmics/

i caught measles, mumps and rubella as a child before the age of 10, before the days of MMR. I can remember having measles and feeling really ill (though thankfully nothing serious), and I am thankful I haven’t experienced my own children catching them all and being ill. We have also paid for my youngest to have the chickenpox vaccine having seen how ill some of our older children’s friends were with it.

I had the rubella vaccine later as part of the routine programme at the time for girls around 11, and measles as a teenager as part of a programme to head off a predicted epidemic in the mid 90s - I found this about why they did those vaccinations then which again is an interesting read though older https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5e5e4623e90e077e36059949/Department_of_Health_-Measles_Rubella_Immunisation_Campaign_in_England-ONe_year_On-_November_1995.pdf

I know two people who had polio…. It made me extra keen that my children had the vaccine.

@confusedaboutclothes "it all feels like a box ticking exercise not because the NHS are actually worried about my baby."

Ok, but what box do you think it ticks, then? You presumably don't believe the NHS does mass vaccination programs just to pass the time/use up money, so what are you suggesting they get out of it?

Even from a cynical viewpoint - that the NHS does it to save themselves the cost/resource of dealing with illness in unvaccinated children, rather than out of "worry" for those children - the conclusion for your baby is still the same. That is: (s)he is less likely to get ill if (s)he is vaccinated.