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More SEN, better diagnosis, lack of funding or a combination?

181 replies

genuinequestion235 · 07/01/2024 13:00

Genuine question:

I read a lot of threads on here relating to poor provisions and support for children with SEN. When I was a child I don't remember many children with SEN (3 spring to mind in my school of 200!)

So do people think more children have SEN needs? Or are we simply better at diagnosing?

OP posts:
Sometimesnot · 07/01/2024 14:55

vcetf · 07/01/2024 13:39

Begs the question then as to why there is more 🤷‍♀️

There’s loads of possible reasons but I expect it’s a combination:
-neurodiversity is genetic. More able adults with adhd/ autism (diagnosised or not) are likely to have children who are also neurodiverse and may have higher support needs than their parents. Does modern society mean neurodiverse people are more likely to meet and have children? For example two autistic people might meet at their tech or research job or online?
-A lack of early intervention meaning due to education/ health cuts mean needs may stay higher for longer?
-young children/ their parents spending a lot of time on screens. While this certainly can’t cause autism it may mean those with lower support needs are getting less social interaction practise at a young age meaning their needs stay higher for longer. At the moment we’re seeing lockdown toddlers and babies in nursery/ key stage and this impact may be higher than in other years.
-more children with health needs and low birth weights surviving due to advances in medical care. They are more likely to end up with additional diagnosis's later down the line.
-Enviomental factors eg ultra processed food, pollutants. We don’t know the impact of these but we may find at a later date this has an impact.
-People having children at a later age. Older mums are linked to chromosomal differences eg Down’s syndrome and older dads are linked to autism.

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 07/01/2024 14:54

Other thing is the change in settings children are placed in, and push for mainstreaming. More children with SEN in mainstream means the level of need of the average kid at a special school will be higher. More children receiving education instead of being warehoused means a higher average level of need. More children being able to be supported outside a hospital means a higher average level of need. Every setting ends up with children with a higher average level of need.

It's like the fact that lots of people who would've been under mental health services back in the 90s are now dealt with entirely by primary care thanks to cuts and "recovery model" appropriation bullshit. Services that have been set up to provide talking therapies for mild to moderate short term depression and anxiety are trying to help people who would've been seen by the Community Mental Health Team in the past. The average CMHT patient is more unwell than the average CMHT patient back then. There are far fewer hospital beds, and the CMHT needs to focus its straitened resources on patients who would've been in hospital 30 years ago. The wards are full of only the sickest patients, some of whom would've probably been on PICU in the past. And so on.

Pumpkinpie1 · 07/01/2024 14:50

I think since 2010 funding and support has been slashed by the tories.
Before that schemes like SureStart were solving /helping before children went to school . Now we have an incredibly poor early years support which means schools resources are being eaten up trying to get EHCPs etc for kids whose needs previously would have been highlighted.
Weve had 24 years of incompetence , poorer nhs support and this is the result.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/01/2024 14:44

OhmygodDont · 07/01/2024 14:30

I’m only early 30’s and we had the naughty children including me. Highly likely undiagnosed, me personally I was bored in lessons because work was easy.

I think medical advances mean children who were never meant to survive are and that has added to the rise, older parents again increase the Risk. Also now there seems to be a lot of well Danny can’t do that because he has Sen. Rather than Danny just doing what he can and that’s cool that’s Danny now it’s a big deal.

we also now we have a generation of parents making excuses for all poor behaviour because Sen rather than trying at all to even make their child’s life easier while at the same time recognising Sen. So yes Ben shouldn’t hit but he finds it harder because Sen and his parents try and help and teach; now it’s well Ben has Sen he doesn’t no better tough shit don’t be ableist against my child he can’t help it suck it up.

Compassionate and understanding post🙄

ntmdino · 07/01/2024 14:36

OhmygodDont · 07/01/2024 14:30

I’m only early 30’s and we had the naughty children including me. Highly likely undiagnosed, me personally I was bored in lessons because work was easy.

I think medical advances mean children who were never meant to survive are and that has added to the rise, older parents again increase the Risk. Also now there seems to be a lot of well Danny can’t do that because he has Sen. Rather than Danny just doing what he can and that’s cool that’s Danny now it’s a big deal.

we also now we have a generation of parents making excuses for all poor behaviour because Sen rather than trying at all to even make their child’s life easier while at the same time recognising Sen. So yes Ben shouldn’t hit but he finds it harder because Sen and his parents try and help and teach; now it’s well Ben has Sen he doesn’t no better tough shit don’t be ableist against my child he can’t help it suck it up.

It's not just survival, though - with the advent of proper knowledge of conditions like autism and ADHD, those people are no longer considered socially unacceptable and kept out of sight...we have much more in terms of opportunity to have a real, meaningful life...meaning we also have a much higher chance of reproducing.

We also tend to flock together, unintentionally ending up with other ND people (I did, and neither of us were diagnosed), which then massively increases the chance that our offspring will also be ND.

OhmygodDont · 07/01/2024 14:30

I’m only early 30’s and we had the naughty children including me. Highly likely undiagnosed, me personally I was bored in lessons because work was easy.

I think medical advances mean children who were never meant to survive are and that has added to the rise, older parents again increase the Risk. Also now there seems to be a lot of well Danny can’t do that because he has Sen. Rather than Danny just doing what he can and that’s cool that’s Danny now it’s a big deal.

we also now we have a generation of parents making excuses for all poor behaviour because Sen rather than trying at all to even make their child’s life easier while at the same time recognising Sen. So yes Ben shouldn’t hit but he finds it harder because Sen and his parents try and help and teach; now it’s well Ben has Sen he doesn’t no better tough shit don’t be ableist against my child he can’t help it suck it up.

Utterbunkum · 07/01/2024 14:16

I think at the severe end (non-verbal, requiring personal care) we simply didn't see them in mainstream schools. I shudder to think about it now, but I think an awful lot of children weren't even in special schools back in the 70s and earlier. They were in asylums.
I know people who work at mencap day centres. Plenty of people with severe SEN attend who are aged over 50, so it certainly isn't new. The majority of those attending the centre were either kept at home or were in a facility of some sort.
The reality is that what has changed in terms of severe SEN is that the godawful asylums closed down (thank goodness for that), the level of stigma and shame, believe it or not, is much less than it would have been even 30 years ago and understanding has grown.

ADHD simply wasn't recognised. Neither was autism unless you were like 'Rain Man'. The condition really wasn't understood as being as incredibly varied as we now know it is. Chances are, just as many children had these conditions but were the 'weird' kid or the 'naughty' kid.
Certainly when I think back to my early school years in the late 70s/early 80s I can think of a few in my tiny village school who certainly would be considered SEN now.

Ifhappylittlebluebirdsfly222 · 07/01/2024 14:01

In my experience it's definitely better diagnosis.
I was at school in the 90's and described as a daydreamer, affectionately called 'away with the fairies' by my family, but absolutely hated by my teachers at school. I was screamed at because I couldn't pay attention, and made to sit on a separate table to eat my lunch because I took too long to eat. I remember one teacher told me I was unteachable. This was all in primary school, secondary was a bit better because I had more control over the way I can zone out. Nobody thought to assess me for anything because I could walk and talk essentially. Being a girl also means it's less likely to get a diagnosis of anything, even now.

My son is exactly the same as me, a little space cadet and on a waiting list to be assessed for ADHD. His school have been amazing and it's made me reflect on my childhood and on my own personality traits and how I should have been supported, compared to how I was treated in primary school. We have come a long way.

ntmdino · 07/01/2024 13:59

IHaveAskedYouThriceNow · 07/01/2024 13:45

Definitely more SEN - life is too much now. Education piles on pressure, is not forgiving at all to additional needs, then doesn’t have the funds and/or motivation to support the children who are being placed in intolerable environments.

I have 2 dc (so far) diagnosed autistic. I suspect neither would need their diagnoses had the been born 40 years earlier.

That's often said - however, I'm late-diagnosed autistic, and I wish it'd been possible to get diagnosed 40 years ago without all the social stigma that was attached to it, and it would've been particularly useful when I went to university (where I completely fell apart, in the 90s).

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 07/01/2024 13:56

Obviously not all. It only takes small changes to have big effects when you're talking about small minorities and services operating towards the edge of their capacity.

Fedupandconfused0815 · 07/01/2024 13:54

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 07/01/2024 13:38

Maybe if they'd been born 20/30/40 years earlier they'd have died?

My child (and many other I know through various support groups) wouldn't have died. My DC (as it is the case with most other DC in similar circumstances I know) present with significant learning difficulties, often autism as well but physically, most are fit and well. There are no extra health needs.

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 07/01/2024 13:47

x2boys · 07/01/2024 13:41

My child also has a rare chromosome disorder he's severely autistic and severe learning disabilities however I had a normal pregnancy and birth and despite his disabilities he's always Been incredibly healthy so it,can,t account for all.

Edited

Can't account for all, no, but since serious disability is quite rare in children, it would only take a few children surviving previously unsurvivable difficulties to make a big change to the numbers of children needing help and the range/types of difficulties they have.

IHaveAskedYouThriceNow · 07/01/2024 13:45

Definitely more SEN - life is too much now. Education piles on pressure, is not forgiving at all to additional needs, then doesn’t have the funds and/or motivation to support the children who are being placed in intolerable environments.

I have 2 dc (so far) diagnosed autistic. I suspect neither would need their diagnoses had the been born 40 years earlier.

x2boys · 07/01/2024 13:43

The population has increased in recent years so that might account for some increase in SEN.

Alltheyearround · 07/01/2024 13:42

I have teen DS with multiple SEND (born with, but not obvious until starting school) and I have often wondered this.

Looking towards genetic testing (referred by consultant) to see if there is anything that joins the dots.

x2boys · 07/01/2024 13:41

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 07/01/2024 13:38

Maybe if they'd been born 20/30/40 years earlier they'd have died?

My child also has a rare chromosome disorder he's severely autistic and severe learning disabilities however I had a normal pregnancy and birth and despite his disabilities he's always Been incredibly healthy so it,can,t account for all.

vcetf · 07/01/2024 13:39

Sometimesnot · 07/01/2024 13:27

More sen. I work in the field visiting different schools and it’s hard to find a reception class without a preverbal/ minimally verbal autistic kid. In more deprived areas there can be 3 or 4 in a reception class. There’s no way those kids have been missed in the past, we’re not talking the type of sen that could be dismissed as the odd kid colouring in the back. We’re talking minimal communication, significant attention and listening difficulties and often lots of behaviours. Nurseries are a similar story, so many kids with autism at the moment. Way higher than the estimates of 1/60- 1/100.

We’ve then got the extra impact of reduced funding meaning those kids are less supported than they would have been even 3 or 4 years ago. 1:1 TAs are becoming rare. This means the kids are being less supported to make progress and are likely to have higher support needs going forwards. It’s awful for families, children and their parents.

Begs the question then as to why there is more 🤷‍♀️

x2boys · 07/01/2024 13:38

Fedupandconfused0815 · 07/01/2024 13:36

Something seem to be happening. My DC is at a special school. School keeps saying the co-hort changed completely in the last 10-15 years. Children attending the school have now significant higher needs than in the past. One of mine has a rare chromo disorder. I sometimes do wonder of these rare genetic issues are increasing because of the way we life, higher pollution yada yada yada ...

Mine also has a rare chromosome disorder ,myself and Dh have pondered this too.

Raxacoricofallapatorian · 07/01/2024 13:38

Fedupandconfused0815 · 07/01/2024 13:36

Something seem to be happening. My DC is at a special school. School keeps saying the co-hort changed completely in the last 10-15 years. Children attending the school have now significant higher needs than in the past. One of mine has a rare chromo disorder. I sometimes do wonder of these rare genetic issues are increasing because of the way we life, higher pollution yada yada yada ...

Maybe if they'd been born 20/30/40 years earlier they'd have died?

Fedupandconfused0815 · 07/01/2024 13:36

Something seem to be happening. My DC is at a special school. School keeps saying the co-hort changed completely in the last 10-15 years. Children attending the school have now significant higher needs than in the past. One of mine has a rare chromo disorder. I sometimes do wonder of these rare genetic issues are increasing because of the way we life, higher pollution yada yada yada ...

x2boys · 07/01/2024 13:33

Something is happening my son is disabled and goes to a special school.in my LEA we have two special needs primary school ,s and two special needs secondary schools all.built within the psst 15-20 years
All.four have doubled in capacity over the past five years.

Sometimesnot · 07/01/2024 13:27

More sen. I work in the field visiting different schools and it’s hard to find a reception class without a preverbal/ minimally verbal autistic kid. In more deprived areas there can be 3 or 4 in a reception class. There’s no way those kids have been missed in the past, we’re not talking the type of sen that could be dismissed as the odd kid colouring in the back. We’re talking minimal communication, significant attention and listening difficulties and often lots of behaviours. Nurseries are a similar story, so many kids with autism at the moment. Way higher than the estimates of 1/60- 1/100.

We’ve then got the extra impact of reduced funding meaning those kids are less supported than they would have been even 3 or 4 years ago. 1:1 TAs are becoming rare. This means the kids are being less supported to make progress and are likely to have higher support needs going forwards. It’s awful for families, children and their parents.

vivainsomnia · 07/01/2024 13:22

Life is very fast and over stimulating. Sensory and information overload. It’s difficult to find peace and space to just be
I totally agree with that. Children at a very young age are no longer expected to learn to focus and concentrate as previous generation did. Children were expected to entertain themselves and not rely on constant stimuli that makes it so hard for them to focus on one thing for a long enough time. By the time they start school, they are already behind those who did learn at nursery and more importantly their parents to do so.

I also think that there is growing assumption that a child with ASD or ADHD have to receive outside interventions to be abl to become a well functioning adult. I think it is absolutely the case for some but not all. Many non diagnosed adults who struggle a bit at school have grown up to do just fine. My dad was certainly one of them. Really struggled at school with what would now have been diagnosed as ADHD, was considered naughtiness at the time. He had to leave school at 15, but once he got to evolve in what suited him (ie. being outside and active), he did very well. He ended up in high level roles and well paid. His maths skills are incredible and still are in his mid 70s.

TigerRag · 07/01/2024 13:21

Better diagnosis (I was diagnosed with something at 32 I was born with which now a lot of women are finding out their unborn baby will have at their 20 week scan)

Some of us were just labelled as odd, etc

Premature babies are now surviving and with that comes disability

TinyYellow · 07/01/2024 13:18

There are more children with SEN, probably because of advances in medical care. Even in special schools people are saying that the needs of the youngest children are far greater than the needs of the current sixth form when they were in reception.