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Land dispute!! Cheeky offer?!

307 replies

NewHere77 · 06/01/2024 20:41

It has recently come to light due to neighbours pending house sale, that our neighbour has around 20 square metres of land at the top of her garden that legally belongs to our boundary. She has asked us to sign over the land to her for £200.

AIBU to think she is being a CF offering £200 for the land, as I think it likely adds a lot of value to neighbours house? (She initially wanted us to sign over land for free)!

The land adds about a third to neighbours garden and has a pretty view which isn’t overlooked.

Neighbour is playing down desirability of land but has also said that buyers will pull out if land is not included and has said she is willing to go to court to claim land.

If we disagree, she is threatening to use adverse possession claim but neither parties have been in either property long enough to claim adverse possession, although neighbour is talking about getting accounts from relatives of now deceased previous occupants of our house.

Part of me feels bad that we bought the house not knowing the extra land was ours so feels a bit rich asking for more money for it, the other side of me is thinking why should our neighbour profit from land that is not legally theirs. Interested to hear others perspectives and what land could be worth.

Thanks!

OP posts:
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5
Westernesse · 07/01/2024 08:40

Isawitcoming · 07/01/2024 08:39

It might be worth a lot more than the 5-10k you think. We've recently investigated a very small bit of land adjacent to our garden and it was quoted up to 80k (by Land Registry). This is most definitely not an expensive area.

How could it possibly be worth that? It’s a sliver of garden. There is absolutely no possibility of it being developed.

there is some wild greed on this site.

Isawitcoming · 07/01/2024 08:39

It might be worth a lot more than the 5-10k you think. We've recently investigated a very small bit of land adjacent to our garden and it was quoted up to 80k (by Land Registry). This is most definitely not an expensive area.

Westernesse · 07/01/2024 08:35

£200 is reasonable on the face of it. But only if you have managed without the land so far. 20sqm is tiny. About the size of a living room or 0.0049 acres.

it seems that it wouldn’t affect any future sale as you were already not using it. Are you really going to go to the bother of changing the fence now?

I would let them have it as long as they pay the £200 and any legal fees.

Mikimoto · 07/01/2024 08:34

MinnieMountain · 07/01/2024 08:27

Send her a letter saying it’s yours and you won’t be selling. Then ignore her.
In 15 years of doing conveyancing I have visited a property once- when we were selling and also dealing with the late owners estate.

Exactly, by registered post with proof of delivery: "Dear Neighbour, Just to say, in reference to the plot of land of reference (which, as you will have seen from both your own deeds and from mine on record at the land registry, forms part of my property), I am not currently interested in selling such land. Yours faithfully"

Whydowomendothistothemselves · 07/01/2024 08:28

Totally, @eatsleepfarmrepeat . Conveyancing solicitors don't visit properties! Their job is to convey the correct legal title, not to make sure the actual garden fence is in the correct place (or that the actual white goods, light fixtures or anything else that they are told are included in the sale is in situ). That's up to the purchaser to check on. In this case, the boundaries are correctly marked in documentation, and the OP legally owns the parcel of land in question - it is the OP who failed to check the actual, on the ground situation. When we were in the process of buying our property, the title plan showing the line of the dividing fence and the actual fence didn't match up when I visited the property. The solicitor couldn't possibly have known this. The plan was correct, and, had I not spotted the actual wonky fence prior to purchase, we would have been conveyed the correct piece of land on the other side of the fence, and would have legally owned it after sale - it would have just been up to me to approach the neighbours to get the fence moved. As it was, I told the solicitor to tell the sellers they needed to move the fence in line with the title plan before exchange of contracts.

MinnieMountain · 07/01/2024 08:27

Send her a letter saying it’s yours and you won’t be selling. Then ignore her.
In 15 years of doing conveyancing I have visited a property once- when we were selling and also dealing with the late owners estate.

eatsleepfarmrepeat · 07/01/2024 08:08

ACynicalDad · 07/01/2024 00:55

If this is something your solicitor should have picked up then you can sue them for bass advice or at least get their advice for free at this stage. Ours ended up paying to correct an error they’d made when we purchased when we spotted it when we sold.

I’m genuinely surprised by how many people have suggested this is the solicitors fault.

The OP has posted a screenshot of the HMLR map search with the correct boundary clearly depicted within this. Granted, the pre purchase enquiries were obviously lax if there was an altered boundary and it wasn’t stated, but conveyancers don’t go to the property, they’re working on the information supplied by both sides and presumably the OP was in receipt of the registered title plan when they visit the property so it really is buyer beware.

OP you don’t need to pay for a survey, you need to instruct a professional to communicate the law to your neighbour, as my previous post, I’m happy to discuss if you want to drop me a DM.

jiggyjiggyjig · 07/01/2024 08:02

Looking at the sizes of the parcels of land, your is much bigger. In the future your land could be seen as having development potential with the extra piece as there is a squared off end. You could find your land is worth multiples due to this. Don't sell just to appease a panicking neighbour. You are the one with the power and she's come in with a ridiculous offer. If she wants it she should be offering over the odds. Not a measly token

MereDintofPandiculation · 07/01/2024 07:52

ThickButteredToast · 06/01/2024 21:00

"The average price paid across England in 2023 to date is £11,100/acre, which is the first time it has ever exceeded the £11,000/acre mark. "Record prices reflect the strong demand we have seen for farmland from a wide range of buyers, coupled with a shortage in farms and estates for sale.21”

Not the best way to value, since the value of a tiny piece of land with no access would be very low.

Better way is either (or both)

Value of her house with extra land - value of her house without

or

Value of your house with extra land - value of your house without

Tangelablue · 07/01/2024 07:49

Did your neighbour buy the house with the extra garden already on it? If so I can understand her panic but I don't agree with how she has gone about approaching you. Threatening to get relatives to tell lies and take you to court. £200 isn't much. I would tell her to get the ball rolling with the court plan.

confusedbythesystem · 07/01/2024 05:36

I would definitely keep your plot as it's supposed to be. It's not worth losing that land and amenity for the 5-10k you're thinking of. Get out there with clippers, tackle the brambles and put up a simple fence or boundary marker so there can be no further confusion.

juicyfruitmtume · 07/01/2024 04:46

I think you need to urgently write to your neighbours, and keep a copy, advising that the purchasers need to be made aware than this is your land!

RosaCaramella · 07/01/2024 03:50

If you bought your house and your neighbour bought theirs with the understanding of the boundaries being correct, I think it’s unfair to try to profit from what’s been discovered now.

i had a similar situation but the parcel of land forming part of my front garden had been bought from the local authority by the owner of the house nearly 30 years prior to me buying the house and he technically still owned it despite the house having changed hands a couple of times since.

I only saw the plot outline when checking the boundaries for a neighbours extension and was stressed out of my mind when I discovered the anomaly. Fortunately my solicitor tracked down the previous owner who happily signed the parcel of land over to us. I had been thinking all kinds of things including losing my house if he or a relative decided to be greedy and try to sell the bit of land to us when we had been led to believe it was already ours.

The fact of the matter was that it had been a simple mistake in not declaring that parcel of land as being a part of the property. If I were you I would seek legal advice before you start moving fences etc.

scorpiogirly · 07/01/2024 01:29

Haven't read the full thread but don't accept any money for it, get your bloody land back.

Fullofxmascbeer · 07/01/2024 01:25

Blame the mortgage company.

Erdinger · 07/01/2024 01:01

Land value is worth more than £200. As others have suggested seek legal advice immediately . It’s your land - you can choose to keep it or sell it at its value . She’s being a CF.

ACynicalDad · 07/01/2024 00:57

Also you have all the power, one you own it but two until it’s sorted they can’t move. Even if this sale falls through they still want to go so if you have hostile neighbors it won’t be long.

bridgetreilly · 07/01/2024 00:56

Land does not have a fixed or meaningful average price. Agricultural land sells for very different sums than residential property land. Land with planning permission sells for very different sums than land without. Land that has access rights commands a much higher price than land which doesn’t. And so on. It’s all about the specific land and its value to each party.

You don’t have to sell it at all, OP. But if you do, then you need to think hard and be willing to stand your ground at a reasonable price.

ACynicalDad · 07/01/2024 00:55

If this is something your solicitor should have picked up then you can sue them for bass advice or at least get their advice for free at this stage. Ours ended up paying to correct an error they’d made when we purchased when we spotted it when we sold.

PropertyManager · 07/01/2024 00:33

I'll also add don't be intimidated by threats of legal action - my mum is a retired solicitor and always taught me to pay little regard to threats of action / solicitors letters etc.. (if you are in business, from time to time, they arrive) put such things to one side until they actually happen, often, more often than not, they are bluffs, a game of legal chicken.

The scenario here is that if you sell for £200, their sale goes through. If you ask the real price, lets say £20K they probably don't have that, sale falls through. If they attempt to take you to court it costs them a packet, takes forever, sale falls through.

They are on a looser, their only hope is to get you to sign over the plot for cheap, or the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

Keep the land, move your fence, increase your value.

juicyfruitmtume · 07/01/2024 00:32

Just remember that not only is £200 a cheek, but if you were to reclaim the garden that could add thousands of £s to the value of your house when you sell in years to come. Don't let the neighbours gain those extra thousands by letting them have your land!

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 07/01/2024 00:21

As PPs mention, if you have a mortgage, I would think that you should should avoid doing anything to affect the value of the property too.

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 07/01/2024 00:19

Keep it and put a little decking/seating area there to enjoy the view. It will be of benefit to the value of your property when you sell. Don’t pay out for a surveyor, I would pay the £6 for the land registry document and inform her that you are going to be enforcing the correct boundary. Tell her that as she has offered to purchase the land she is aware it is not hers and you refuse the offer. Job done.

PropertyManager · 07/01/2024 00:19

fabricstash · 07/01/2024 00:15

I thought adverse possession laws were changed /removed a few years ago? I think you can still have the 20 year rule for unimpeded access but not ownership. Happy to be corrected though

Yep, all changed, they don't have a cat in hells chance of adverse posession - it's not theirs!

PropertyManager · 07/01/2024 00:18

jiggyjiggyjig · 06/01/2024 23:58

Average in this case is meaningless. An acre of woodland is vastly different from an acre on the St George's Hill Estate. One will be worth very little per acre. The other is worth a few million.

Exactly, I've just paid £120K for 1/3 of an acre, this little scrubland plot gives me access to a site where I have outline planning for 10 x 3 bed homes, planning only to be granted if access can be sorted. I was well pleased to get it for £120K, its worth that and more to me. Without those circumstances it would be worth about £4K.