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Land dispute!! Cheeky offer?!

307 replies

NewHere77 · 06/01/2024 20:41

It has recently come to light due to neighbours pending house sale, that our neighbour has around 20 square metres of land at the top of her garden that legally belongs to our boundary. She has asked us to sign over the land to her for £200.

AIBU to think she is being a CF offering £200 for the land, as I think it likely adds a lot of value to neighbours house? (She initially wanted us to sign over land for free)!

The land adds about a third to neighbours garden and has a pretty view which isn’t overlooked.

Neighbour is playing down desirability of land but has also said that buyers will pull out if land is not included and has said she is willing to go to court to claim land.

If we disagree, she is threatening to use adverse possession claim but neither parties have been in either property long enough to claim adverse possession, although neighbour is talking about getting accounts from relatives of now deceased previous occupants of our house.

Part of me feels bad that we bought the house not knowing the extra land was ours so feels a bit rich asking for more money for it, the other side of me is thinking why should our neighbour profit from land that is not legally theirs. Interested to hear others perspectives and what land could be worth.

Thanks!

OP posts:
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NewHere77 · 07/01/2024 23:04

Can’t get full view due to position of hedge but this is the view of the top of the garden.

Land dispute!! Cheeky offer?!
OP posts:
RosaCaramella · 07/01/2024 23:03

porridgeisbae · 07/01/2024 19:15

But also bear in mind, if your extra land has been enclosed in their garden for 10 years, they have a legal right to the land.

I don't see that that can be right. I've heard it before but I think it's for instance in cases where the legal owner is not known. The legal owner is known in this case.

And their home's previous owners might have a private agreement with your previous owners to own and enclose this land.

OP hasn't though. Plus I don't see why anyone would voluntarily do that, without being paid for it or renting it out.

Edited

Re your second point, people didn’t used to be so money-grabbing and were often friends with their neighbours. So it is perfectly feasible that one neighbour could have given over a tiny part of their garden to a neighbour for any number of reasons. Costs of signing over and changing title deeds would most likely have prohibited a lot of folks from doing so officially causing problems further down the line as seen in OP’s case.

For those who say how could you not know the title deed plot boundaries, I have never been sent such details when purchasing a house, although I haven’t purchased for 17 years. Maybe it’s more common now but it certainly wasn’t in the past where I live in Scotland.

I hope things can be resolved with minimal stress to all concerned. I just wonder how people here would feel if they suddenly discovered that part of their property / curtilage didn’t actually belong to them and a neighbour was asking for £xxx for the privilege. Tough luck eh?

NewHere77 · 07/01/2024 22:58

I’m sorry to hear about some previous experiences on here! The one about the neighbours taking the vulnerable persons land is just horrible, glad your family were able to get most of it back.

To answer a question, the white triangle in the middle is an unregistered bit of land that seems to sit in our hedge.

I would say the pic I sent is mostly accurate although in real life our garden is a bit more rectangular at the back than the diagram makes out.

I took some photos today. The land hasn’t been tended to and the wall at the back has fallen down. I would also say the last couple of metres didn’t really have an established boundary when we moved in. It was just bramble and then we put chicken wire fence in where we thought the boundary was to stop the dog getting out.

The more I look at the deeds the more I wonder how the neighbour could truly believe that the land was hers. The deeds show a sharp triangle and in real life the boundary is rectangular.

We are going to try and get some advice tomorrow. Will keep you updated.

Thanks again for your input!

OP posts:
Isinglass20 · 07/01/2024 22:55

OP what on earth are you doing spending your time on MH? You need to pull out your documentation when your property was conveyed to you at purchase. Also do you have a mortgage on your property. The mortgage company has a charge on your title ownership.
It is a very serious matter if the solicitor made a mistake in the registration of your property at the Land Registry.
Tomorrow first thing ring the solicitor who handled the conveyance and request an urgent appointment with regard to what you and the mortgage company purchased and what your registered title includes.
Forget about those neighbours- just tell them it’s in the hands of your solicitor.
This looks like allegedly attempted title theft.

Nononsensemumsy · 07/01/2024 22:31

Deleted

Daddydog · 07/01/2024 22:05

We faced a similar thing when it turned out we owned the land we thought was shared with another neighbour. Only discovered it when we were selling. Obviously it complicated matters during the conveyancing stage, and the other other party used this as an excuse to reduce the price of their offer. Bit odd as they were gaining land but I guess they were worried about future disputes.

Bet the buyer hasn't genuinely threatened to pull out but has positioned for a price reduction. They will be cheeky and base reduction on the current market value. Obviously your neighbour isn't going to tell you that. So the neighbours are technically 'making' money on whatever is settled below land market value!

I'd personally not agree to anything. let your neighbour either re-negotiate with their buyer and if they loose that buyer, at least they know how to correctly sell it to the next buyer. I may even compromise and offer to erect a fence so their potential buyers can see the exact true boundary of the garden. Fresh buyers will come along and they won't miss what was never there and your neighbours will probably get a better asking price than the reduced one from buyers who would feel a bit cheated. You get your land back and if you like your new neighbours you can always sell it to them in your own time.

Only issue is that they may have to declare why previous buyers pull out but that's their issue.

MumPod · 07/01/2024 21:53

£200 offer is an insult! We purchased a small piece of land to the side of our house. It was literally big enough to fit 6 cars on. It cost us £4,000 and that was several years ago. We purchased from the management company where we live so £200 is absolute insult to you.

prh47bridge · 07/01/2024 21:38

Nononsensemumsy · 07/01/2024 20:34

The land looks to be registered to you (I’m a legal Secretary to a land solicitor). Urgently see a solicitor because as the land is already within your title my understanding is she can’t make an application for adverse possession on already registered property. I think you will find the law is on your side.

Yet again, this is not true. Adverse possession claims are possible on registered property, particularly where the claim comes from a neighbour. If the neighbours can show that they and the previous owners of their property have occupied this land for at least 10 years and that they reasonably believed it was their property, they may be able to claim adverse possession regardless of the fact that it is registered property.

dawngreen · 07/01/2024 21:37

The laws have being changed slightly regarding land. My partners dad took on his mums place after she passed. Several neighbours had fenced off parts of her garden, and some even built on the land. She was old and had MH issues so did not take notice of them putting up fencing. Well her son got legal advice, and took back all the land except one that had a conservatory built on it.

jiggyjiggyjig · 07/01/2024 21:28

Toomuchtrouble4me · 07/01/2024 21:10

My opposite neighbour stole the end of our garden in our holiday home. It’s a v long garden and he took about 2 metres. We were advised (not professionally) that because he’d had it about 2 years he had established right of use and it was his. I now know that was wrong and it still irritates me that he stole our land because he was a horrible man. We’ve since sold that house so the new neighbours will be unaware.

Genuine question: why did you take advice from a random person regarding something as important as your property?

Toomuchtrouble4me · 07/01/2024 21:10

My opposite neighbour stole the end of our garden in our holiday home. It’s a v long garden and he took about 2 metres. We were advised (not professionally) that because he’d had it about 2 years he had established right of use and it was his. I now know that was wrong and it still irritates me that he stole our land because he was a horrible man. We’ve since sold that house so the new neighbours will be unaware.

DinaofCloud9 · 07/01/2024 21:06

Is the photo you've showed accurate as her boundary doesn't look at all correct?

Jeannie88 · 07/01/2024 20:43

It is a shame you didn't know it was yours. Of course it will be worth more then £200! Get a free evaluation of your property, find out how much it's worth etc. Oh I eas thinking of putting a pool there...

boodlesandpoodles · 07/01/2024 20:39

Good god do not accept £200. It’s amazing how neighbours can downplay things to their advantage. Recently had a neighbour offer a minimal amount for a piece of land they REALLY wanted from us, that would have hugely improved their house, it was such a low ball offer that we closed the conversation down immediately… funny thing is if they had been fair we might have entertained some sort of negotiations.

Nononsensemumsy · 07/01/2024 20:34

The land looks to be registered to you (I’m a legal Secretary to a land solicitor). Urgently see a solicitor because as the land is already within your title my understanding is she can’t make an application for adverse possession on already registered property. I think you will find the law is on your side.

prh47bridge · 07/01/2024 19:56

@porridgeisbae - The poster you quote is wrong. Simply having the land enclosed in their garden for 10 years doesn't give them a legal right to the land. However, as they are neighbours, if they and the previous owners of the property have been in possession of the land for at least 10 years and reasonably believed the land was theirs, they may be able to claim adverse possession even though the legal owner of the land is known. It is called adverse possession because it allows someone to take land that legally belongs to someone else under some circumstances.

Sillyname63 · 07/01/2024 19:55

Sorry should be " not long after they moved in "

Sillyname63 · 07/01/2024 19:53

I would contact your solicitor and get the land properly valued , obviously £200 sound very cheap but all depends on what she is selling her property for . I think she is trying to pull one over on you by saying she can get people to give evidence of the land being hers by right , she is just trying it on. Also when you do agree on the price make sure she pays your solicitors fees for the transfer of ownership if you decide to go ahead and we'll it but don't leave her force you into doing it. Also make sure your mortgage isn't being compromised by selling bits of your land , when asked a neighbour to sell us some land neurological t long after they moved they said it would affect their mortgage.

prh47bridge · 07/01/2024 19:16

RunningShoe · 07/01/2024 18:59

No they don’t have a legal right to the land, OP has registered title she would be able to defeat an adverse possession claim.

She may be able to defeat an adverse possession claim, but, because we are dealing with neighbours, that is not a given. If the neighbours and previous owners of that property have been in possession of the land for at least 10 years and reasonably believed it belonged to them, they may have a valid claim for adverse possession. Land Registration Act 2002, Schedule 6 paragraph 5(4).

porridgeisbae · 07/01/2024 19:15

But also bear in mind, if your extra land has been enclosed in their garden for 10 years, they have a legal right to the land.

I don't see that that can be right. I've heard it before but I think it's for instance in cases where the legal owner is not known. The legal owner is known in this case.

And their home's previous owners might have a private agreement with your previous owners to own and enclose this land.

OP hasn't though. Plus I don't see why anyone would voluntarily do that, without being paid for it or renting it out.

DorotheaDiamond · 07/01/2024 19:13

prh47bridge · 07/01/2024 10:37

Adverse possession has been mentioned a few times on this thread. Contrary to what some posters seem to think, it is still a thing. Whilst landowners have more protection against adverse possession claims than used to be the case, particularly if the land is registered, the situation is somewhat different where, as here, the parties own adjoining land. If the neighbours and previous owners of the property have been in possession of the land for at least 10 years and reasonably believed that the land belonged to them, they may have a claim for adverse possession.

Thanks for clarifying - I thought everyone was overstating the changes!

pollymere · 07/01/2024 19:11

I'd be taking it back and enjoying it personally!

RunningShoe · 07/01/2024 18:59

No they don’t have a legal right to the land, OP has registered title she would be able to defeat an adverse possession claim.

RunningShoe · 07/01/2024 18:58

And yes, neighbour is taking the piss. If you are interested in selling it they should pay for a valuation and pay market value. If you have a mortgage your lender will need to sign the sale off and might want some of the cash for doing so

OldPerson · 07/01/2024 18:57

Both parties should agree to get it valued by another estate agent. Find out the price difference between selling their house with and without the extra garden space. Also find out the extra cost for their solicitor to sort out all the paperwork to transfer ownership of land. You need financial facts.

But also bear in mind, if your extra land has been enclosed in their garden for 10 years, they have a legal right to the land. And their home's previous owners might have a private agreement with your previous owners to own and enclose this land. And you both could face a lengthy court battle and high costs.