Languages in high school

What happened op? Did your son take the language

But this is the very problem with languages for native English speakers isn't it? We just can't be bothered. Because we don't need to be bothered. So the more keen people may dabble a bit but because we don't seem to value other languages and because we can get away with not using them in most jobs, people just don't pursue them. And it starts right here where the OP's DC is at GCSE option level. Don't even do a GCSE in a MFL and that's it, door closed.

I took French at school and went on to do it at A level and then did a degree in Economics and French (spending a year studying law, economics and politics at a Grande Ecole in Paris). I eventually went into banking and by coincidence (it wasn't targeted) ended up working for a French bank where the day-to-day language was actually French. That led to me working in the Paris office and even training (in French) whole teams of people there. Years later, I ended up working in Paris again for a global big name management consultancy where I was the only non-French person. I worked with banking clients there, all in French.

I work for a Swiss bank in London now so don't use my French too often but when I do, the common theme is my continental European colleagues being shocked that someone English can actually communicate in French. We just have such a terrible reputation. Quite sad really as our London office is full of multilingual non-Brits. Other countries absolutely put us to the shame. Approx 80% of my dept in London are fluent in more than one language. If you're English and don't have international experience and/or speak at least one other language, you really stand out, and not for the right reason! It is most definitely career limiting.

Also realistically, very few English professionals speak another language to the level that they can use it in their job. I did French A-Level and continued to use it after school and also went on to learn Italian to a similar level (about B2). However, while I can have a functional conversation at a casual level, I am light years away from being able to use either language for a professional job. Unless you become fluent in a language (which means learn it far beyond GCSE level) it isn't going to help you professionally at all. This isn't to say there aren't other reasons to learn languages - there are! But the idea that a GCSE in Spanish alone is going to enhance his career prospects in the IT or banking industry is simply not true.

For an academically able child I think that the best options for GCSE are traditional subjects, and subject to this they should pick the ones they will do best in. No point doing French or Spanish if he'll get a lower mark than whatever he would choose otherwise.

I dont think French or Spanish will open any doors to careers these days. Arabic, Mandarin or Russian are really the only ultra desirable languages which properly open doors.

I speak French fluently but have never used it, even when I lived and worked in France as I worked in an international company and a job where we dealt in English.

I have lived in 4 countries and never had any issues getting a job until the present one, where Arabic would have been helpful.

I've just been reading this tread back and can see some really interesting assumptions revealed which I'd love to understand better - such as it being straightforward to learn a language later on if a young person changes their mind.

We can, but we can learn much more quickly when we're young. It's harder to get the accent right in adulthood, and hard to carve out time after work. And learning young makes international exchanges and working abroad during the college/early training years much more feasible.

I don't think people say the same about children learning football - that they shouldn't be pressured to run around a cold field on Saturday mornings and can take it up at secondary school if they feel like it.

Or swimming - there is a cultural norm that it is important to learn, which we rationalise as being to save our lives for when we fall into a canal.

Being culturally-adept, even without real fluency, can also be life-saving.

I see the same attitudes to learning a musical instrument. I'm not sure how best to counter the assumption that it's too hard/boring/pointless/up to the child/we can learn 'later on'.

I agree with you. I am saddened that he thinks it is OK to be the typical Brit abroad. Of the two pick which one he would be most likely to use- I had a relative in France when I was growing up, hence my siblings and I learning French not Spanish.

The poster may be in Scotland.

I didn’t do a language gcse and regret it a little bit, but if he doesn’t want to it’s probably not worth forcing and there’s always the opportunity to learn when he’s older if he wants.

Ok, so first off all this ‘high school’ terminology is not the norm. We go to secondary schools and we pick GCSE options. In a decent school they will try to organise it so that aT least one language (other than English) is the norm. If they don’t be careful you are not at some place where duff options are on offer. Business studies, Food Tech instead of a language might be how it sits - if it is then it’s very clear what you should choose

A quick Google will tell you that everyone doesn’t speak English. Not by a long shot. And there is nothing worse than doing business with someone who can’t even manage a few words, greetings, please, thank you, in the language of the country and people you’re working with. There is a now ancient episode of the Apprentice where the smallest amount of French shows how doors open and the lack of it shuts them.

Is MFL an essential GCSE? No. It is, however, a subject favoured by admissions tutors if his future career plans involve getting onto a particularly competitive university course. It will keep the full range of doors open for him but I don’t think the lack of it necessarily closes any doors. You mention banking in which case I would suggest it would be helpful. However, wanting to do it is half the battle so if he’s dead against it, I wouldn’t subject the teacher to someone who can’t be arsed. It’s hard enough without that.

Personally, I prefer Spanish but French is spoken the world over and is an official language of most international organisations (UN, UNESCO etc etc). Either would help with learning the other should they become essential for career advancement.

I've done italki recently for a very unusual language. You Skype/Zoom with a native speaker in the country. So you earn culture as well as language. The teacher gave me really good advice about what to talk about with locals. I impressed one bloke so much he told everyone about it later.

I was really impressed by this guy a few months ago!

He points out that languages are now much easier to learn, and we can get to intermediate level in 150 hours.

There are three tricky languages I'd like to learn for friendship and professional reasons and he makes it sound possible!

https://mazmhussain.substack.com/p/how-to-teach-yourself-a-new-language

Does he only ever want to do banking with English speaking countries? Many people who he will be up against for a job will be very bright, with top qualifications, but will also speak two or more languages. They are more useful to employers, will be more employable and able to earn more.
Language GCSEs do not just teach you to ask where the beach is. They are academic, not just conversational. Many institutions value language learning as a complex and transferable skill in its own right. GCHQ actively recruits language graduates, for example. Employers also recognise the desire to communicate and look beyond our country. If your son wants to be a global citizen, working for global companies, he should learn a language.
Spanish is good for the person who mentioned dyslexia. It is phonetic and much easier than English.
The more useful language for him to learn depends on where he would be most interested to learn about/work in/trade with. There are millions of French and Spanish speakers, and learning either language opens doors.

I would generally say Spanish is the most useful (in terms of numbers of people speaking it, travel etc). But yes if he wants to work in Finance, learn French! Useful in France, Switzerland, Belgium.

Spanish is the more useful, surely. It’s spoken all over central and south America. I agree with other posters though. Unless you keep it up, languages just evaporate. I knew someone who was nearly fluent in German at 18, for example, and can now barely speak a word.

As with so many things, what really counts is passion. You never know, it might spark something. I’m a diehard Francophile, and always have been. Even as a kid I was reading Asterix comics, and to this day I love the old French films (Jules and Jim, The Rules of the Game, La Grand Illusion, etc). I bitterly regret not doing French at A-Level.

Quite, the choose the options you're passionate about doesn't work- they do 8-10 GCSEs. I also think it's unhelpful to think 'what use will it be'. That isn't the point of education. We want to develop well rounded individuals who understand the world around them. Languages are a part of this.

The really great thing is that it's now so much easier to learn immersively if you want to compared with when I was at school. You can change your phone settings, watch French movies with English subtitles, follow French language accounts on Twitter, access French websites and newspapers, YouTube etc.

It really helps. They are so lucky to be able to learn in the online environment and because of that, should be able to speed through the GCSE curriculum. They have so many opportunities and resources to read and listen.

Depends on what he'd have to drop in order to take the language. If it's something he'd much rather do, then it would be better to do that.

My son faced that situation as he did want to study a language but didn't have enough options available to do it. We got round it by him doing an online GCSE language course outside of school, alongside his usual subjects. His school made special arrangements for him to take his exams there though (and did the same for several other pupils too). It got a bit stressful at times when the volume of work was high, but it worked out very well in the end

Noooo! Stick with the ICT/finance based subjects, so many jobs on the market, great salaries and development opportunities. I have a French and Spanish degree and work in....ICT 🤣🤣

I’m of the generation that had to do a language. My school did French, and I hated every lesson. It was so hard and I found the lessons so boring. I got a grade C and I’ve never used it since. I’ve only been to France a handful of times and my French is so poor that it’s just not particularly helpful (more of a hinderance really). I haven’t needed to use it in my day-to-day life at all so it definitely hasn’t opened up a whole world of possibilities. I’d say do a language if you’re interested, enjoy it and are thinking you might take it further. But I hated being made to do it and I’m sure I’d have got a better grade in something I had more interest in and was better at. Don’t make him do it if he really doesn’t want to.

French is easier, I studied both, and I say that because of Spanish radical changing verbs.

I got a job in a french bank. But it depends what he wants to do.

Ultimately I became a teacher of both languages and I would advise french. Spanish is popular because people think it's easier, but marking students' homework and now gcse's, they are labouring under a mistaken belief to claim so.

France is our closest foreign language neighbour and doing business in paris is closer and easier than in madrid. In my pre teaching career I was never required to do business with latin America.

Hope that helps.

Both ours dropped the language to concentrate on maths and science. Honestly it hasn't held them back. One has now learnt Spanish post graduating but more for fun. I think they are only useful if you want a career using them

I work in banking and the language I use most frequently other than English is French. Over the years I've actually used French a lot at work and although it isn't a requirement of my role, it certainly adds value and has opened doors for me.

By contrast, I've hardly used my Spanish. German would have been more helpful (but my German is pretty dire) especially in Swiss banking.

Most big banks/financial institutions have a very international employee base and being open to other cultures is vital, and having an understanding of other languages and/or countries (or indeed the challenges people face when communicating in non-native languages) is pretty much a given if you want to succeed.