Drinking wine each evening

Well in an ideal world you'd be happy and relaxed without it I suppose. Alcohol happy is fake happy and sometimes masks pretty rubbish real feelings, and helps you tolerate things you'd be better off changing.

You can sigh all you like, OP. I don't think anyone here is pretending to live a perfect life. That isn't the point.

You can of course choose to ignore the 14 unit guidelines if you wish. It's your life and your health. However, it's a bit odd to suggest that it's just a random number plucked from nowhere without any medical evidence. The rationale for setting the recommendations at that level is in the public domain - I'm happy to point you towards it if you're interested but I suspect that you're more invested right now in finding reasons why you don't need to cut down. Fair enough.

Sorry OP. I was wrong. The report I linked to before actually shows heroin, crack and meth are all worse. So it's slightly less bad than I thought. A 2010 study showed alcohol as the worst of all and that's what I was originally referring to. I've linked it below but obviously the 2020 one is the most up to date information.
I'm not sure if that's a ringing endorsement though, being better than those 3 drugs.

Anyway, whichever of the 2 studies you go by would suggest that you'd indeed be better off smoking weed or dropping ecstasy or LSD than drinking (not that I'm suggesting you should do that either) 😂

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/06/25/what-is-the-most-dangerous-drug

You're not wrong about it being messed up. It doesn't actually make any sense that weed is illegal and alcohol isnt. But if you don't believe me here's a link to a website with the study. It's actually a more recent one than I'd previously seen (2020) and has been updated to show that alcohol is now only the 3rd most harmful, after crack and meth but STILL ahead of heroin and everything else.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2020.592199/full

I'm not telling you what to do btw. I just think a lot of people close their minds to the risk. If you'd seen a loved one die from alcohol related liver disease (who honestly I hadn't even realised was an "alcoholic" until the last year of their life when they were told to stop drinking or they'd die, because their drinking was fairly like yours. Every day, probably 4 drinks a day on average) then you might feel differently. I just think a lot of people think you have to be destitute, drinking from morning to night to be an alcoholic or cause massive damage but that's not necessarily true. Some people get lucky. Others don't. You can decide to do what you like but it's good to at least understand the risks.

I don't think people really are making out that they're perfect. Long and short of it, it's your life, do as you see fit.

The World Health Organisation published an article in The Lancet in January 2023 regarding the health risks associated with any alcohol consumption no matter how light . It’s worth a read. Obviously you can ignore it but it explains the risks clearly- especially the risks of developing cancer.

The risks and harms associated with drinking alcohol have been systematically evaluated over the years and are well documented. The World Health Organization has now published a statement in The Lancet Public Health: when it comes to alcohol consumption, there is no safe amount that does not affect health.

Surely it’s about individual quantities and personal consumption? I don’t doubt that alcohol consumed excessively is more of a drain on the country than heroin. But on a personal level it’s hard to argue that a glass of wine 4-5 times a week is worse than shooting up heroin…

I'm not aware of a single person having suggested otherwise. However, I'm also not sure what other people's poor habits have to do with your drinking habits.

If I eat too much chocolate, the impact of that on my health is not lessened by the fact that you're drinking two glasses of wine every night.

If you're comfortable with the fact that you're drinking more than the recommended limits, that's entirely your choice. But the fact that other people drink more than the limit too, or that they have other bad habits instead, doesn't in any way reduce the risks to your health.

Ultimately, you don't have to justify your drinking habits to anyone. You're an adult and alcohol is not illegal. You can drink as much or as little as you like. But you must have had some level of niggling doubt about how much you are drinking because you wouldn't have started the thread otherwise. Just be honest with yourself about the choices that you're making and the risks that you are and aren't willing to accept. The opinions of random strangers on the Internet - whether they agree with you or not - are not relevant or important.

Have you forgotten the topic of your own thread?
Yes of course your list is not good for you. But these being not good for you does not make alcohol any better for you.

Anyway good luck on your 2 dry days. Hope it goes well.

@Mamabear2424 You can do whatever you want to, obviously. And sure, there are absolutely loads of people who drink more than you and don't cause themselves too much damage. But you asked. And the fact is alcohol is a poison. There's no need to tell people to "get over themselves" because they're telling you the truth you don't want to to hear. Honestly I think the denial is maybe worth a think about, even if you then decide to carry on drinking the same amount.

*Mamabear2424 · Today 15:51

Yes i bet loads of people here eat a ton of chocolate, not their '5 a day' and have sugar in tea and coffee, hey too much coffee? how about smoking, or even smoking weed? How many are overweight, eat ready meals, dont walk, drive their kids to school? We all have our 'poison'!!!*

Respectfully @Mamabear2424 I think that other than an actual "ton" of chocolate all of the things you've listed are actually less harmful than alcohol, assuming we're talking about similar levels of overindulgence. just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make it not true. There was a comparable risk table drawn up of various drugs a few years ago, which included scores for both harm to user and harm to society added together. The number 1 most harmful drug was alcohol. It came in quite a bit higher than heroin. And "smoking weed" was so far down the list it might as well have not even been included.

Oh god, I do nearly all of these but don't smoke weed or chocolate often and am not overweight. I have sugar in coffee, don't exercise, drive everywhere I can and drank wine daily until January. I also drink a diet coke every day. Very bad. I would do better if I didn't have a full time job, 3 kids and a house to run as I would have more time to exercise, eat properly etc. I would still drink wine, coffee and diet coke though :)

The worry is you said it makes you happy!

The 14 units is an arbitrary made up number. See the discrepancy between countries…

That logic would suggest that there also isn't an unsafe amount as it depends on the specific person and their individual risk factors which is why someone can lead an incredibly unhealthy life and live to a ripe old age and, conversely, live a healthy life and die young. There is some correlation but a huge amount is predetermined. How much you want to mitigate your individual risk, knowing it may not make a difference, is down to you. Personally I enjoy wine and other bad things - I do what I can but would rather take the increased risk and enjoy my life. Others will have a different perspective.

All this talk about wine is now making me want a glass! I can't crack on day 5, can I?

Exactly. Whilst it’s good to have a few days off I don’t agree with this ‘it’s a slippery slope’ nonsense. Everyone is different. Some people can’t stop at one glass. Therefore they need to be more careful. My drinking has decreased over the years not increased

Lots of people eat shit and don’t exercise. That’s harmful to your health.

Very few people are perfect. In that they don’t drink/smoke/ eat perfect diets/ exercise daily.

Didn’t the Queen Mum have a glass of champagne every day at around 3pm?

Sadly even a glass of wine disturbs my sleep these days so I tend not to drink in the week. It definitely doesn’t impact my mental health (there’s much joy to be had having a few glasses of wine and a good old laugh with friends). We are all different.

So OP, I think with just a few days off you’ll be fine.

Indeed. But if someone came on here asking if it was OK to regularly consume excessive amounts of chocolate, or smoke 20 a day or whatever, would you say yes, that's absolutely fine if it makes them happy? Or would you point out the obvious health risks associated with their habits?

I don't think anyone is judging you for drinking too much. As I said above, I'm far from perfect myself and I'm not in a position to judge. But you asked if we thought your drinking habit was OK, and lots of us are telling you truthfully - but not judgementally- that we think it's too much.

It's totally up to you what you choose to do with those opinions, but you did ask and we answered.

Lots of good debate here. This thread is a great distraction from all my unfinished work!
I only want to add that the 14 units isnt a scientific safe limit. Its just a suggestion. As I understand it there can't be an actual safe limit as alcohol is a neuro toxin. There are no such things as safe limits for a substance that is poisonous.
I can't drink I became allergic about a decade ago. Menopause eh!
Alcohol the answer too all life's problems and the cause of them as that great philosopher Homer Simpson said.

We are not specifically villifying drinking above being overweight
If this thread was I eat a family size bar of chocolate every day then there would be a load of posts of the burden overweight people put on the NHS
But the post is on alcohol so obviously that is the focus of the replies.

I was drinking a bottle of wine a night up until very recently. I didn't have hangovers but would feel tired and sluggish, my mum is an alcoholic and I didn't want to end up the same.
I've started Dry January, I'm on day 5 now, I haven't had any headaches or withdrawal symptoms but I have noticed how much better I feel in just a few days. I haven't found it difficult and it's really made me rethink my relationship with alcohol,

Absolutely fine. My DM has had alcohol (special brew at lunch, g and t and a glass of red every evening) since retiring at 69. She is now 95 and amazingly with it.
Previously to retirement she would only have a glass of wine during the week, obviously more at weekends.